With Botond telling me over the weekend about his plan to purchase a 95 S50 OBD1 to put in his E30 and with all that could go wrong (money takes care of it all) should he really do it? I estimate at least $5K parts, labor, etc... He really wants to do it but do you all think its worth it or just to leave his E30 325es a E30 325es and enjoy it for what it is?
You suck! Stop making me doubt doing this! It's taking me lots of convincing myself to go through with this so why are you trying to make me feel bad?
Actually Botond, I don't think anyone here is trying to make you feel bad. If you said that you had $10k set aside, and another $3k for sure as a cushion, I'm sure everyone here would be saying go for it, you can get the whole project done right, regardless of cost, with lots of money leftover to spare. Or at least $500.00 or so. Your enthusiasm for your car, BMW's, the club, etc., is all great - I think everyone is just stressing the point that this type of project is expensive, with expensive unforseen contingencies, and that no one wants to see you get stuck with a half-completed Franken-project, completely unable to recoup or use your car, having to hoof it, or tooling around in a rusted-out Geo Metro. If you think this engine is the deal and you have the money for it and a place to store it, cool, fine. Personally, I wouldn't recommend you consider launching into the project and taking your car off the road until you have absolutely every part you think you need in hand (after all the research and recommendations you can get), the cash for the install labor costs, and $2k on hand beyond that. $300+ for this and that, and oops don't forget that, can add up to a thousand or two, quick! We're not trying to damp your enthusiasm man, just offer up a realistic perspective so you can keep a balance between your enthusiasm for what you want to do, and what it's actually gonna take to do it. Or... save yourself the hassle and buy this guy's car! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars....c0.m245&_trkparms=72:317|65:12|39:1|240:1318
So, here's how I see it. If you're totally in it for the performance and "wow" factor, go right ahead, as long as money and time permit. But in my opinion, you'd be trashing the timelessness of the car as it was intended to perform when it was designed. But, then again, I'm just a hopeless vintage romantic about my car. Or something like that.
Elk, you are looking at it the wrong way. This is what BMW would have done if they had made the E30 body at the same time as the M50. Not like he wants a 350 in it or something.
Come on, Elko; it's not like I'm putting an LS1 in there. That would be Blasphemy! I'm staying true to the E30 spirit by keeping the looks completely OEM. No aftermarket body kits for me, and as soon as I have a spare ~$200, I'll throw some Euro Smiley lights on to get rid of the only aftermarket appearance part on the whole car! I'm designing it to be the way an '87 330is would have looked had BMW been enthusiastic enough to make one! Regarding the M50 E30 posted above: Nah. For a marginal amount more, I'd rather have an S50 swap than an M50. I get heaps more power for just a bit more. No thanks, I'm gonna do this right. I'm not starting this project till I have this safety net. Why is everyone assuming that I'm going to start it without the funds to back it? Of course I'm not going to take my car off the road until I have enough. What, you guys think I'm crazy?!?! I said one step at a time. First the engine, then the oil pan, then the motor mounts. Then all the other little things required to make it work. I may be only replacing what may be necessary at first, but keep in mind I just submitted my taxes and should be getting a hefty amount back, which is entirely devoted to this fund. That itself would pay for the labor, and I'm prepared to save for another 2 months for this project. The engine isn't going in as soon as I pay the engine itself off... ... and besides, I'm selling my laptop, and he just happens to need one, so that would go towards the cost. With that trade, it would make one cheap, very well running low-mileage S50! Anyway, this is the first time I'm committing to this. I've wanted to start this sooooo many times and kept talking myself out of it. This does good for me; I'm committing to a financially-based project, kind of like new homeowners that just bought a house and want to renovate it; it's something I've never done before and it would build my confidence that I've made the right choice. Try to talk sense into me all you want, I might regret my decision right now, but I am committed and will approach this project with full enthusiasm. So, instead of trying to talk sense into me, how 'bout some "yay go for it!" support? I know y'all want to help and I really do appreciate it. I will take whatever advice you have to give regarding getting the project done, into consideration. Besides, doesn't anyone want to see the darned diving-board eta with an S50 at the next Oktoberfest?
Guess it doesn't matter what we say. If you think that for "a marginal amount more" than $4500 that you will have a working S50 E30, then that is what you are going to try to do. Doesn't matter anyway, someone just bought that car. They knew what was up. Just don't expect it to happen quickly or cheaply is all we are saying. Hope your guy knows what he is doing (or at least what he is getting himself into.)
He's a BMW Master Tech. I'm sure he can handle it. By marginally more, I mean marginally more doing an S50 swap as opposed to an M50 swap. The labor costs are still there... Theoretically, if all the predictable parts that would be needed for this swap are there, then it could be done in at the most 2 full weekends, no? He does have access to parts wholesale and can get them within 2 business days most of the time, and he says that he could get most of the work done in the first full weekend, so the following week would be used to clean up loose ends such as those "surprise" parts that may come up. But, as I said, not starting till I have everything that I could predictably need. Only at that point does this actually become a project. Till then, it's just me and a bunch of parts I have bought in the meantime.
Botond Sounds like you are committed! Go for it and do it right!!!! You will have a bad $(% car when you are done. Maybe down the road you can add early euro bumpers and a BMW/Alpina/Hartge/AC front spoiler. That will really set your car off!
I don't get how $2000 is only marginally more. You can get complete M50s out of E34s for $600. And those already have the right pan setup and everything. There is a guy right now on R3V offering to build the wiring harness adapter for $85 shipped, if you are serious I would jump on that. Get the brake booster, or have the master tech mod one if he can do it for a reasonable price. And you could get an M50 swap done for around $1500. And you are still talking about a 60HP increase, not insignificant. Oh you're also going to want to get an "i" cluster.
And make sure they don't sell you a 318i cluster or else you will need a coding plug. Sitting on the parts until it is all there is a good plan. I am not saying anything about your guy, I don't know his skill set at all, but remember that most BMW master techs only know how to plug in the GT1 and download the SIBs on a car. There is only one at the local dealer that would be capable of doing this swap (he built an E28 540i) and he is not the norm for BMW master techs. He must be doing this one off the books. That's the only way to do this kind of work an make money. Make sure you bring cash. Techs like cash
Yessir. I won't let you guys down, I swear! This would be a cash deal. I'm selling stuff I don't need anymore to have the cash for the engine, and I figure I'll just take out a lowly loan for the labor and extras that I need. I can easily pay off the loan within half a year if I do. I don't know how the loan thing works so I have to look into it first, but if the bank is willing to give me a 3k loan and I get renewed, then I'm set. I sell two laptops and my Playstation 3 (none of which I use) then I've pretty much got the engine and maybe a couple of goodies covered like water pump. I'm only considering a loan because I want to get it done before the cold weather starts in the fall. Nobody likes to work in the cold... I'm not sure of his skill set either, but I know for a fact that he's not new to swapping engines. If you say most of the master techs have skills limited to plugging in a computer and installing software, then I'm relieved already, because he's currently working on a couple of headgasket swaps in newer 7 series cars (E38 and newer) and he has transplanted plenty of engines such as E36's that needed a replacement motor. He's not new to the game and hear that some would swear by his work. Looks like I have a possible new mech seeing as he's half the distance from my current once... Anyway, I'll look that guy up on r3v. Is that adapter for that M50 you're mentioning or for an S50? Or are they the same? I already have a 7k tach and I believe it will work as long as I have a coding plug for a 6-cylinder car, which I obviously do. What do you think? Anyway, if I'm doing this, I'm doing it right. I'll make a post in the other thread (the appropriate thread) with what parts lists I come up with. That's assuming I have some time during the weekdays to actually research... Things will definitely slow down this weekend so I'll have plenty of time to do the research.
I can see it now. You calling me up to borrow my E28 for a month . Just kidding bro, I hope it all works out. Lets hope they renew your contract by the end of the month. You don't want to be an unemployed bum like me . After this project is complete, save your M20 engine so I can have Moosehead stroke it out and make my E28 a 530is!
$250 cash and you'll take it because your bank account will be drained by spending $5K plus! I doubt you would drive the E28 because its an automatic.
Well dude, the E28 is a classic. Besides, there are rewards in it for you... *cough* tune-up *cough* Besides, I could live with an auto for a couple of weeks. lol An auto tranny is better than a 2-speed operate-it-yourself tranny (aka walking) $250 is perfectly reasonable. Comes with the cooling system too, and you know how good a shape that's in...
I hate to continue to be a downer, but if you are talking about selling your stuff and taking out a loan, then maybe you shouldn't be thinking about spending thousands on a motor swap for a car that runs well right now. The main reason I'm going ahead with mine (I was planning on waiting til this time next year) is the M20 burnt up an exhaust valve then popped the headgasket. Add a $2k tax return and a smoking deal on an S52, and its why I didn't just go with an M50. And I'm still running WAY over budget, which means the swap won't happen until mid-late May now vs early next month like I had originally wanted. Remember, you can still get some pretty good power out of an M50. 540i MAF, S50 cams or S52 cams and S52 valvetrain, a good chip, and quality exhaust will get you 180-200 whp depending on how strong the motor is that you get.
