DAMN - I hate this keyboard. 20 minutes of typing just disappeared.. I'll try to keep it brief: MOA "Chapter" model - really isn't about chapters. It's about special-interest-groups, consisting of real and virtual clubs, organizations, etc. becoming "Chartered" by the MOA. The charter is a nominal fee with very few benefits - but it helps to make the group known, and allows for some event advertising in the national magazine (MOA-Owners-News, which actually is quite good..) Unlike the CCA model with 1 statewide organization - the MOA model often results in smaller chartered organizations with a more focused view. In NJ there are 4 chartered MOA clubs. Three of the clubs have a lot of members in common, and work together on various events during the year. Members of those three are always welcome at other club's events. The 4th club is actually the oldest - but a bit insular in viewpoint. Nice people, but not too outgoing. The local clubs generally self-fund events they want to hold. The events are anything from a toy-run around Christmas for a local children's hospital, to an annual rally (an overnight get-together with camping and or motel like accomidations.) The national MOA organization does not provide funding or insurance for these events. The result of the smaller model is more involvement with the organizations. The local clubs have between 40-90 members. A typical monthly meeting of my local club will have 35-40 people in attendence. Ride events are held weekly through most of the year - and anyplace from 5-25 members will show up for these. There are also rolling events such as riding to the national rallies. I mentioned before the difference in participation level. Part of that is that being a motorcyclist is a bit different from being a CCA member. Motorcyclists are typically enthusiasts. Car owners may or may not be - apparently the large majority aren't in the CCA. The MOA gets more than 25% (9,890 out of 35,000 members) to a national event. The CCA gets ?? 2%? (1,000 out of 55,000?) One big advantage to the MOA "Chapter" model that I see is it encourages local participation. With 4 clubs to choose from in NJ - I could go to a club meeting every week, and interact with perhaps 150 other enthusiasts. The local CCA chapter generally meets in an area of NJ that is difficult for me to get to. They don't move the monthly meeting around, so I suspect that the faces at the meeting are not changing a lot. There is one event they do have that gets out a large particpation - the annual free dinner at BMW-NA in June (and tire-kicking of new models and "secret" info sessions) - In that way CCA members aren't a lot different from MOA members. Show them free food and expect a crowd. Then there are the MOA virtual clubs that have formed and chartered with the MOA - the Internet BMW Riders is probably the oldest (and I was a charter member) - it's been going for at least 17 years now. It is a worldwide club - run as a mailing list - that on occasion has face-to-face events around the world. I've made MANY great friends worldwide through that club. I'm a member of perhaps 6 different virtual MOA clubs - dues are nothing, and it's easy to join on-line, or drop out if my interest changes. So back to the discussion.. and in particular - the funding of local events. It's a nice thing to fund the local events, but the majority of members never take advantage of them. I know I *could* take advantage of them, but I have very little interest in beating my cars up in a HPDE, I'd rather be out riding my bike. The local CCA Chapter doesn't do tech sessions (which our local bike club does), and basically the share of my dues that goes to the local NJ Chapter is a gift from me to the people who make use of it. And that's the reason I question the need to increase dues. Cost to cost-causer is a valid option - despite it apparently skewering some sacred cows. What would be the participation level in HPDE's if the CCA didn't help with the cost of the events? I think the gift I'm giving is big enough now. If costs for local events is going up - perhaps it's time to pass more of the cost along to the people who participate and relieve some of the burden from the people who just like Roundel and a once a decade "Members Reward".. OK - too long.. so I'll stop now. Heading out on vacation tomorrow so dunno how much I can keep up with the discussion.