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Ouch part 2

Discussion in 'E36 M3 (1995-1999)' started by Scott Mc, Oct 20, 2009.

    Scott Mc guest

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    My 16 year and one day old son had his car (1995 e36 m3, 106k miles) for 24 hours. Shifted from 5th to 3rd with out use of clutch (dont ask). Trans was shifting fine no issues with syncros or clutch prior to above incident. Will not come out of third, any suggestions for a quick fix, before the shop starts to tear it apart. (Please refrain from the does bad driving run in the family posts, as it obviously does (humor)). Thanks in advance for any help.

    Scott Mc
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    CRKrieger

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    Sounds like he broke the shift linkage. No quick fix for that. WHY would you let a 16-y-o have an M3 for a first car? :confused:

    Scott Mc guest

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    Thanks for the info. regarding the trans.

    As an aside the car was purchased at a reasonable cost. As a car enthusiast I wanted my son to learn to drive a manual and I also feel that a good handling/performing car is a safer car. A honda accord v6 has more horsepower than the M3. He has spent the last year learning to drive the car and I was comfortable with his abilities As with any car, inexperienced drivers (and experienced drivers) will make mistakes. Unfortunately, this is looking to be an expensive mistake (he will be paying for the fix not me).
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    az3579

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    Definitely no quick fix. Just hope he didn't destroy a gear, though if it stays in 3rd he probably didn't.
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    MGarrison

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    If they have to get into the same area anyway (undercar, transmission) it might be worthwhile to check out the various vendors' "money-shift" remedies and include those in the repairs. I think they're something like much less flexible transmission mounts and supports. Bimmerworld, Turner Motorsports, and UUC come to mind to check out offhand, I presume there are others that also address the issue.
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    az3579

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    Other "money-shift" preventative maintenance includes new shift bushings and a short-shift kit, which makes shifting a lot more precise, crisp, and with shorter throws, when paired with the bushings.
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    CRKrieger

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    The infamous E36 "money shift" is caused by too-short throws. Why would you want to make them even shorter? Still, if the description is accurate, this was not one of them. Fresh bushings on a stock shifter will address the problem better.

    As an HPDE instructor, I'd suggest that the youngster is trying to learn things backward. First, he shouldn't be skipping gears. Second, requiring him to make shifts with no more than three fingers on the shifter should be a good lesson in not forcing the shifter where it doesn't want to (and shouldn't!) go. After that, he can try to learn to do it without a clutch.

    The reason I would not put a 16-y-o into an M3 is that the dynamic handling limits of that car (in particular!) are very high and very sharp - even dangerously so. The E36 M3 is known to snap roll on smooth dry pavement when certain relatively normal slide recovery techniques are used. This unfortunate characteristic has ensnared a number of far more experienced drivers than he is. Unless he has had a hormone transplant, he will test the handling limits of the car. He will learn to catch a quick oversteer slide - and the better he gets at that, the closer he gets to that precipice where the quickest fix is a new car because the roof is all caved in on the old one ...

    Arash2002tii guest

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    Question of the year
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    granthr

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    +2 Long time ago my father had the foresight to start me out in a 40hp diesel VW. :D But amazingly I was still able to get to triple digits in that thing! Not beyond 100 mind you and had to be going down hill with a tail wind. :D

    Arash2002tii guest

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    Hahaha, for some reason the slower your first car is the more fun it is (with exceptions e.g. prius). I thought my first car was slow but I guess a 100 hp 2002 is still quick compared to a 40 hp vw

    Scott Mc guest

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    Thanks for the input. He didn't tear it up too bad, just had to fix what he bent. Did not tear up any gears. While the trans was out replaced the clutch, and installed bimmerworld trans mounts.

    Based on the input I am either an idiot or the coolest dad in the world for letting my son drive an m3. Fyi he read the posts and is utilizing the three finger shifting method.

    I believe my first car was one of the slowest a 1972 vw k ghia with a stick-o-matic. Talk about crazy handling with all the weight in the rear end at times it was like driving an overloaded dump truck.

    Have a good one.

    SDM
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    az3579

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    No way! You are the coolest dad in the world! Wish I had an M3 for a first car. Heck, I'm still stuck on mine. lol
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    Satch SoSoCalifortified

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    Cool dad indeed

    Yeah, I'm going with the "coolest dad" opinion rather than "gol-darned idjit."

    It IS possible to learn to drive---and drive well---in any variety of cars, and it's true that a BMW suspension---M car or not---will forgive many things that other cars would spank you for. . . and those spankings are educational, when they're not fatal. Still, by learning to drive an M3 well, one learns to drive well, period. . . and to appreciate the physics of the game.

    Every BMW CCA driving school is just that: a real-time physics lab.

    When you get this thing back together, it's time to take up autocrossing. Let's refine that testosterone!

    Scott Mc guest

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    Car drives better than ever. Hopefully early non fatal error has tempered sons over confidence in his abilities. He will be reminded constantly since he will be my indentured servant to the tune of about $1200. Appreciate everyones insight and opinions. Thats what makes this country great, everyone is entitled to their opinion whether you agree with it or not. Lets not forget to pay homage this week to all the Veterans that have sacrificed for our country. Have a good one.

    SDM
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    JDiazAmador

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    Wow... That's the first I heard about this, and an E36 M3 is exactly what I was planning to get for my next car. Is any more information about the a above available?
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    tiFreak

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    the Street Survival course would be a good place to start, I've done two of them, this summer and last summer, if you do it in the car that you drive everyday it really teaches you the cars limits and how to correct if you accidentally pass them
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    CRKrieger

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    Yes. It happens with really sticky (like R compound) tires and fairly competent drivers. The car breaks traction in a fast corner; driver catches it and it swings the other way ('fishtail'). Driver recovers again, but now there's some pendular motion built up that takes it back the other way and ... over she goes. Standard advice to E36 M3 students is, "Catch it once. If it slides again, let it go." Better to spin the car than to roll it.

    Too many people fail to realize that the very high limits of most new high performance cars are also sharp (and dangerous) limits. While the M3 will save your butt from most of the stupid stuff that would mean a slide in a 2002, when it can't, you're going a lot faster than you would be if you slid a 2002.

    bimmerdreamer guest

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    wow did not know that... i slide turns rarley for fun sometimes but i do it in the rain, because i dont feel like replacing tires too often... and by doing stuff like that in safe areas, it had tought me a lot about the physics of my M3, especially wieght transfer... and Scott ur the coolest dad out there man!!!!!!!! coming from a 19 year old. but the best thing to do is a driving school!!!! im saving up for mine, but kinda hard to do so when im 19 and own a m3 lol...
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    330indy1

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    +3
    :confused:
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    CRKrieger

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    Do you have any idea how much less traction you have in the rain? Do you also have any idea what will happen if you happen to hit a patch of oil or tar under that water? I ask because I know the answers (in numbers!) and I am not crazy enough to try sliding in the rain unless I'm on a track with lots of safe recovery and runoff space. FWIW, you really learn almost nothing about weight transfer doing this because - there isn't enough traction! If you're going to play that kind of game with your M3, forget spending money on upgrades or driver schools. Plan on buying another M3 after you crash this one ...

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