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Ofest Autocross question... 2 series cars?

Discussion in 'Oktoberfest 2015' started by conechaser, Jun 3, 2015.

    • Member

    conechaser

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    Greetings,

    I was just wondering what class the new 228 and M235 fit into for the Ofest Autocross?

    (Just trying to plan for when I hit tomorrows Powerball :p )
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    dmmai

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    Mornin' Jan,

    Not sure where CCA might place them but, SCCA has them all lumped together in FS with the 1 series and 3 series, including all IS models (but, excluding 1M).
    At last weekends SCCA event an M235i (bone stock w/ all-seasons) ran mid-pack but, I think he was a relative noob with room for development, both driver and car.
    I can't imagine CCA would put the M235i with the 1M. The skinny little tires and extra weight would put it at a distinct disadvantage.
    Regardless, it should be a Lot of fun.
    .
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    • Staff

    steven s

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    And where does an i8 go?
    gvcmel likes this.
    • Member

    conechaser

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    Those are all good questions!

    Anyone want to talk about moving cars with DOT R comps to the "Race" class??? Those new Hoosier and BFGs are basically a slick tire and indicated "not for highway use".

    And shouldn't the rules for "Race" class say "NON street legal"?? Or do ALL Ofest cars HAVE to be street legal??
    Race

    THE FOLLOWING MODIFICATIONS WILL BE CLASSED AS RACE:
    • Non-DOT tires.
    • Street-legal vehicles.
    • Stripped body shells.
    • Non-stock chassis.
    • Member

    mattm

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    Hoosiers and BFGs are DOT approved. Their manufacturers suggest not using them on the street. Points/different class are already in place to compensate for Hoosiers and the like.
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    woodym3

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    Yeah, but just the addition of aftermarket springs to my 16-year old M Coupe (with a 32-year old rear suspension design) on non-R street tires has to run the same class as the most heavily modified modern M3s on Hoosiers. Some rules need up-dating.
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    mattm

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    Would you like an "I-Class" so "I" can win? :)
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    woodym3

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    Hell yeah! Or just a fighting chance to be competitive.
    btw, I just talked to Terry Baker about his plans.
    • Member

    mattm

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    Have Mr. Baker tweak your car, then no complaining except for the interface between the seatback and steering wheel. :D
    • Member

    conechaser

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    Well, yes, but also no. I don't want to get into a big discussion here on the forum as I think it needs to be addressed elsewhere... but that being said. One of the things that I see is that there doesn't seem to have been any reviewing the R comp rule set since at least 2008 which is when I started going to Ofests. Back then, the hot Hoosier tire was equal to the Kumho Victoracer. The new BFG and Hoosier A7 are WAY different tires from that era of tire technology. They really are basically slicks with minimal tread wear grooves IMHO. And like you said... even the manufacturer does not suggest/recommend using them on the street. Isn't that part of what the definition of what a race tire is?

    Another issue is, how do the people who are donating the tire prizes to the FTD winners feel about having R comps? Ya gotta keep the sponsors happy!

    Here's another problem area. What about cars that start right in the A level? A bone stock car is in the same class as another of the exact same model that can have a full suspension, engine mods, and R comps. Maybe there needs to be one more level above A for those situations or perhaps start one level lower for that grouping?? (just brainstorming here)

    I do appreciate the issues that finding an equitable classing structure can be. You want to have fair competition, but you also don't want to have 50 classes either. You also want it to be easy for a novice to figure out.

    I don't know the process on how to or who to make suggestions about Ofest Autocross classes, but I'd be glad to help.
    • Member

    dmmai

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    All completely reasonable positions, just differing prospective.
    What do you want from your CCA O'Fest autocross experience?

    For the sake of comparison, the SCCA currently has 40 open autocross classes. (Then there are at least 30 more Ladies classes.) A typical local SCCA event will have at least half the entrants running alone in single car classes, racing nobody. Or, bumped up into higher classes or categories where they run against much more potent and/or highly modified cars.
    The BMW CCA currently has 27 classes at O'Fest, including the two for first-time beginners and one for non-BMW.
    How many do we really want?
    Updating or maybe re-thinking existing classes, sure why not.
    But let's be realistic, the only people who will win a set of Bridgestones at O'Fest compete in heavily modified Bimmers running Hoohas.

    Pretty much everyone else is there to have fun and fellowship.
    I don't know, maybe not bad expectations.

    Hope you have a great experience at O'Fest.
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    steven s

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    I'd like to use Sandlapper Chapter autocross classes.

    NONE!
    • Member

    dmmai

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    I'm with ya Steven.

    Playing the SCCA game back in the dark ages, we chased trophies and awards, regional, divisional, national. It was fun, for a while. After laying off for a few decades, we now appreciate a much simpler experience. We just like to have a little fun, preferring our local Porsche Club events every now and then. No classes. No trophies. Just a lot of fast fun laps.
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    mattm

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    I suspect you might have missed this in the rules:

    Stage Two
    • R Compound tires are allowed. Less than 140 UDQG or higher is considered R Compound.

    It would seem the R Compound tires have been addressed with an appropriate adjustment. I happen to keep my car set up to pretty much a stock set up save for struts and shocks, front sway bar (from a BMW OEM M3 convertible), and my tires. Am I building out the car to the full extent of "Stage Two?" No, and I accept that if someone has built out their car to that level and they beat me, congratulations, job well done. I'm not going to whine about making the rules match my level of car preparation.

    gvcmel guest

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    Still the same can of worms as when I questioned the rules. LOL

    I've questioned before how someone who drove their car to OFest (assuming some street tire) is supposed to compete against a local on Hoosier A7s which are a slick - token groves are not tread. I've suggested before that any slicks means you are a "race car".

    And as mentioned, the tire sponsors for several years now have awarded the FTD prizes to competitors on non-street tires. I'll admit its a conundrum with no simple answer.
    • Member

    mattm

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    I'll be driving from Connecticut on my Michelin PSSs (300+ Treadwear) with a set of A6's inside the car (315/265-35-19). You could also see if someone from your region has extra space to bring Hoosiers down. Again, there are rules that move DOT-R equipped tires to another class.
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    steven s

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    +100
    I don't seeing changing either. :(
    I still wish we used Sandlapper's classing system.

    NONE. We drive for fun.
    Ken.S.330 likes this.
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    Smed330

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    I chased the fast times for a few years and then brought Hoosiers and got 3 O'Fest FTD's in a row. That was fun, competitive, nerve racking, and I learned a lot about my driving and some car prep along the way as that was essentially my only Autocrossing for the year. Not being "overly" greedy, I say no more Hoosiers for me. I appreciate what the sponsors have done and am using their tires for all my track time now. My wife is also happy that we are not bringing the tires along on the trip anymore. It makes the trip more enjoyable. I agree with you Mel, no simple answer unless we all use BMW's car with the sponsor tires! It would take a while, but be a fun exercise in driving the same car and what a person can get out of it.
    gvcmel likes this.
    • Member

    dmmai

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    Now that would be fun again.

    Like the short-lived C.M.C. Midwest autocross series back in the 80's, sponsored by Volkswagon.
    In addition to the regular auto-x classes for everyone's cars, VW offered up a few of their new supercharged VW Carrados (on spec tires) to be run by Everybody in the VW Challenge. One class for everyone, to determine the top dog of the day. As part of that, they also had a team competition, five drivers per team. Some were club teams, some pick-up teams. The team with the fastest cumulative five times won. Equipe Rapide out of Dallas/Ft. Worth took the team honors for the first event.
    That first event was run around several city blocks in downtown Ft. Smith, Arkansas. All 157 drivers flogged those poor things all day long. That was enormously fun.
    They even had their own "National Championship" in Oklahoma.

    Anyway, who do we talk to at BMW?? :rolleyes:

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    gvcmel guest

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    Ok, lets throw this one out and see the tumult it will cause.

    New - Drivers challenge class:
    BMW brings a set of four or five 3 series fleet cars. They have them. Tire sponsor fits their best/fastest tire on it. You pay an entry fee ( thinking $100 target) which covers entry fee and wear/tear on the cars. Excess $ goes to offset expenses, Maybe even a charity. You don't drive the same car twice (eliminates a possible "hot" car in the group ). End of day, someone is not FTD but FBD (Fastest BMW Driver). Tire sponsor now awards prizes to someone who excelled on their tires, not the hottest limited life time slick. Means you don't need to drive a raged edge set up car and brings driver skill to the forefront.

    There used to be a competition like this years back. Always enjoyed it as it was a level playing field.

    And in the interest of full disclosure, scrounging around for a set of used Hoosiers to put on the E30 or I may just bring it on BFG Rivals. Rivals are not the optimum size/tire but they be setting there waiting to be used. If you want to hunt the FTD prize you need Hoosier A7s or another slick on your ride.

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