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M5 -- 3rd out of 3...

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by GregS_WI, Dec 4, 2008.

    GregS_WI guest

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    EuroWerkz1

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    So then I will also resist, other than to say, haven't we all heard this before, so many times before... Yawn....
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    az3579

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    They can say what they want but the fact of the matter is this: other companies are still comparing their cars to a BMW.
    Have you noticed that companies like Hyundai are comparing their cars to a BMW? It's simply staggering! A Hyundai will NEVER drive like a BMW. Ever. You can have all legroom to yourself, Mr. Hyundai Genesis buyer, because that's not what's important in life. What, like the legroom in a 7-series isn't enough? Give me a break. You want to lay down like in a bed? Buy a Maybach.



    Not only that, but the M5 came out years ago, and at that point was the world's fastest 4-door car (if I remember correctly). So along come these youngins thinking they're the best when the M5 held the crown for so long. BMW isn't just going to cough up a new M5 just to beat these suckers again, so when the new M5 comes out, the best it will be once more, until a few years later someone else comes along and tries to beat it.
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    CRKrieger

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    Quit rationalizing, kids. BMW got its butt kicked in this one, and deservedly so. While they were spending time engineering useless crap like i-Drive, Bangle Butts, and 'flame surfacing', Cadillac was shovelling a Corvette underneath a sedan and they did a helluva job of it. This is the first Cadillac I'd really want to OWN (at least, since that black '53 4-door my old man wouldn't let me shell out $150 for so many years ago) as a driver's car. John Heinricy is no idiot and, at his hands, the CTS-V has quickly built an enviable racing reputation. Even before they hit the track, I saw some of the test mules that were sitting out at Road America (freshly returned from the Nurburgring) and I knew then that they were dead serious about getting this job done right - and they have. Kinda' like BMW once did, but hasn't done recently. The jury is still out on the Rahal-Letterman team for next year. We shall see - and those will be M3 coupes, not full-sized sedans like the M5. Until then, if I were in the market for a 'race on Sunday, buy on Monday' car, the CTS-V would be high on my list.

    GregS_WI guest

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    Anyone see the TopGear rerun on the M5?

    BBCA has been rerunning an episode of TopGear where Clarkson drove the M5. He called it the single most annoying car he had ever driven. Then he hit the M button. After blasting away in M mode as well as stint on their track by the Stig they declared it was both one of the best and one of the worst cars they ever had.

    In filming, they also ended up sending two M5's back to BMW on flatbeds. They said, "So it must be a bit fragile." (YMMV.)
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    az3579

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    Not saying the BMW is the the best and always will be, just saying that it's a constant game; someone releases something spectacular, then someone else releases something better, and they keep topping each other. In perhaps a year or two's time, someone will top the CTS-V and it will be a better car.

    But the fact that the M5 has always been the benchmark for fast saloons is quite remarkable, even with more powerful cars out.

    I dunno 'bout you, but when it comes to fast 4-door saloons, I'd have a Maserati Quattroporte. Beautiful car, that!
    Or an Audi RS6. The E60 M5 doesn't ring my bell, to be honest.

    GregS_WI guest

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    Could be worse...

    It could be worse...seen the rear of the Panamera?
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    mattm

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    I did a few short laps at Monticello Motorsports Club in early November and drove a CTS-V with the manual transmission. Very impressive car, especially for the money. We used an abbreviated course (North) so only had a short straight. I believe I was at 120 or so very quickly and dropped to make it through the chicane at the very end of the straight. Now could I see myself in a Caddie? Hmmm, might have to pull the emblems off and go from there. :^)
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    EuroWerkz1

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    Well I tried to resist...

    As auto enthusiasts we should take everything we read with a grain of salt, and that includes our own BMW CCA related publications. That said it has been my experience that all of the domestic auto magazines, blogs, and websites, are doing their part to promote the domestic industry. That is okay with me.

    Here is what else I know from experience. I have driven many M5's and they are great cars. I am not wild about the styling but we are talking about German BMW's, none of which are all that beautiful in my opinion. Now, Italians build beautiful to look at cars. (we actually have a 2005 Quattroporte in stock right now, beautiful to look at but a long way from an M5 in any performance category)

    But comparing all performance, and not just 0-60 times and lap times but also including everything that make up the cars total performance everything from ergonomics to comfort, presence and quality of materials, to cost of ownership including resale value, the M5 is very hard total package to beat. My business partner has a 2006 M5 and I was lucky enough to take it Oktoberfest this year where not only did it eat the 2000 miles like a trip to the park, I did a track day at Watkins Glen and the car performed amazingly, in fact much better than even I antiicipated. That said the M5, the RS6 the Cadillac, and the other cars in this class are most certainly not track cars in any way, shape, or form. A well driven warmed over E46 will wipe the track with the whole lot quite easily. It's just a physics thing, too much weight and mass to overcome with just power. Now do I believe Cadillac has produced a car that can perform by the numbers as well or better than the current M5. I'm quite sure they can just as they can produce a Corvette that can run with and beat the numbers of the Porsche 911. Numbers are one thing the total car is quite another. Wrting or Reading an article is one thing and experiencing the cars are quite another also.

    Just something to think about.

    Is BMW the end-all carmaker, no but they are certainly on the podium in every category.

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    mattm

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    Doug,

    Just to pick some nits....:)

    As we all know, a well warmed over CTS-V (or anything for that matter) will be leaps and bounds over straight out of the factory car.

    Glad to know you have a Maserati FS, gee no agenda there. :)

    A Corvette Z06 will out perform a plain Jane 996/997 quite handly, where as a Z06 vs. a GT-3 the playing field is level.* And when the ZR-1 comes out, it will raise the bar a considerable distance.

    If someone offers you the opportunity to run a CTS-V do take 'em up on it. You'll be as surprised as I was (but I kept wanting to put on white shiny patten leather shoes and hike my pants up to my n!pples :eek:).

    *heavily based on SCCA Solo results.

    Best!
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    EuroWerkz1

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    I'm not here to debate anything but am surprised....oh, oh but now I see (*heavily based on SCCA Solo results)
    where you are coming from. So let's just be glad we all have such great choices...
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    mattm

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    And I thought you were replying about my imagined fashioned choices. :D

    They make for a horrible mental image (except on the east coast of Florida). ;)
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    mattm

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    Would I autocross a CTS-V? Not likely. BMWs are getting afflicted "motor vehicle overweightus disease." A friend tried a 2nd gen M5 a few years ago. Competition in the class was Camaros and Mustangs (not current gen). On paper it sounded good (I like the idea of tossing the race tires in the trunk and backseat). But alas, too much mass to be competitive. Now the current gen Mustangs are dominate in the class.

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