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In the process - 535i - questions re: tuning...

Discussion in 'E60 (2004-2010)' started by Becker, Dec 13, 2009.

    Becker guest

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    My last BMW was an '07 550i - currently in the hunt for another car and have been looking at 535's. In addition to the "noise" out there relative to fuel delivery issues (I'd appreciate your feedback on this), I was at the dealer yesterday spec'ing a car out and they informed me that Dinan is no longer supported by BMW's warranty, and that BMW now has their own tuning option to boost the 535. They weren't completely certain of this (non Dinan dealer), and I plan to check in with their service department this week - the questions are: Does anyone know the scoop on this issue, and what experience have you had with the Dinan (I guess Stage I - chip re-map, which I understand is supposed to boost the crank HP to about 360 or so), and does anyone know what the BMW option is reaping in terms of HP? Thanks -

    Tim
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    pseto

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    BMW never covered Dinan products; Dinan covers their own products and picks up where your BMW's warranty doesnt.

    Becker guest

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    Got you - but previously, installing Dinan software, for instance, didn't void the BMW warranty - I'm wondering if that has changed with was reported to me...
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    pseto

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    Dinan products does void the BMW warranty, but the Dinan warranty picks up from there
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    bcweir

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    Actually that's not quite right.

    Federal law prohibits auto manufacturers from refusing to honor factory warranties if aftermarket parts are fitted.

    The only exception to this is IF the manufacturer or dealer can prove that the aftermarket part caused the problem. Considering the volume of PAID business the average dealer service department conducts every day, they generally have little time to conduct such often-lengthy investigations. More often than not, it's quicker (and cheaper, timewise) to overlook the aftermarket part and service it along with the rest of the car.

    Dealers are reimbursed from the factory for warranty work, rather than getting payment upfront at the time of service. Also, the work is performed at a pre-agreed upon labor rate. So if the repair takes longer than the rated labor specification, the dealer loses money on the job.

    However, I reiterate that a dealer or manufacturer is prohibited from dishonoring or voiding a warranty UNLESS they can prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure. This doesn't mean the manufacturer is required to service the aftermarket part. It simply means that the manufacturer cant simply wholesale declare the entire car out of warranty when one aftermarket part covers something unrelated to the rest of the car. For example, the dealer can't refuse to cover a broken window motor just because you have an aftermarket exhaust modification.

    I'd be skeptical of a failure related to a Dinan part. Dinan's been doing this for over 25 years, and maintains a very honest and professional business reputation. There aren't many aftermarket tuners who do things better than Steve Dinan.

    Dinan's warranty page is listed here

    http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/warranty
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    eam3

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    I've taken many a modified car to the dealer for warranty work and NEVER had any issues. A Mustang I owned had a complete exhaust system, pulleys, aftermarket brakes and air mass sensor, different throttle body and I still got any warranty work done with no issues (not that it needed much, damn car was unbreakable).
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    bcweir

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    That is essentially what I said.

    That is, car manufacturers and dealers can't arbitrarily void a warranty just because it has aftermarket parts on it.

    JerseyGeorge guest

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    Your refering to the Moss Magnusan act......and YES they can void your warranty! Yes, the law is on your/our side but all the corporate lawyers and money puts the manufacturer at an advantage that most people are unwilling or unable to fight! Fighting a big corporation in court requires money up front for lawyers and experts! Remember this a dealer dosen't have to prove anything initialy when voiding a warranty they just do it........WE have to prove it in court!
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    bcweir

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    Don't be so sure that consumers can't afford litigation

    There is a website called lawyersandsettlements.com Many attorneys offer free consultation and determine for themselves if a case is worth going to trial over.

    Look at what happened with Wal-Mart. The biggest retailer in the world had to settle a class action lawsuit for 600 million dollars over unfair pay practices in which they forced people to work off the clock and commit varying types of payroll fraud.

    Never assume the little guy cant' afford to fight big business.

    If you don't believe me, search it for yourself, then come back and tell me it didn't happen, or that ordinary people can't fight big companies like that.
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    gheumann

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    I just end-of-leased on my '07 530 and now have a shiny new 535i. I was concerned about the fuel delivery issue as well - but according to the dealer, it was with '08 cars and has already been addressed by the factory, no longer a concern. Now, I wouldn't trust the dealer's info as far as I could throw it, but having owned several BMW's I suspect this rumor is actually true.

    ForcedInduction guest

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    Little people with deep pockets or government backing can fight big corps. Otherwise you're wasting you money and time in my experience.

    For the record I am not a lawyer and I don't give legal advice but the Magnuson-Moss act is widely mis-interpreted to mean things that usually will not hold up in court. A manufacturer can void a warranty for any number of legitimate reasons including modifications that alter engine performance from as originally supplied by said manufacturer. There is no court in the world that is going to make a manufacturer warranty engine/trans/suspension mods. If you read your new vehicle warranty carefully these particular areas are usually highlighted as not covered by mods but the warranty disclaimer is not limited to only those areas.

    To illustrate, if you desire to use a non-BMW oil filter that meets all BMW warranty specifications, the MM Act allows you to do so without any warranty issues. If on the other hand you install an oil filter that does not meet BMW specs and your engine croaks due to an oil filter issue, it's your problem not BMWs.

    In addition if you mod the engine say with a different intake or exhaust system and your engine has detonation because the engine mapping is incorrect for the aftermarket induction or exhaust system and you detonate the pistons out - it's your paperweight not BMW's.

    In regards to the HPFP failures, they have never been resolved and I'd be surprised if BMW doesn't get a class action suit over it after having this problem right into the 2010 models.
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    bcweir

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    Under such circumstances, the burden would be on BMW

    BMW would have to prove that the engine damage/destruction was the result of the modifications. Actually, that would probably not be difficult to do. Nearly every dealer shop has access to a BMW GT1 diagnostic computer, and it wouldn't be too far fetched to determine that these ECU's can probably do some limited logging, and many do store trouble codes.

    A lot of these mechanics work on these cars for a living. It would not be a stretch for them to do a diagnostic or even an autopsy on one of these engines to determine its cause of death.

    At any rate, if BMW were to deny warranty coverage, they're going to have to state a reason for doing so. If the car owner is going to go to court over it, he will have to prove his side of the story, as will BMW.

    ForcedInduction guest

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    If the new car warranty states that mods to the engine/trans/suspension/audio systems, etc. void the warranty, all the car mfg. has to show is that you modded the car, not that the mods caused damage. If in doubt have a lawyer confirm this for you. That's why it's important to read and understand your limited new vehicle warranty.
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    DHENRY

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    My source w/BMW tells me that the fuel-delivery 'issues' have been (and still are being) addressed on a regular basis, on affected models.
    FWIW, high-pressure fuel pump replacements have been done at the company's expense.
    Don

    ForcedInduction guest

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    Amazing that BMW hasn't got the problem resolved after four model years. Not a good sign.
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    eam3

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    Our 535i just became the latest victim of the HPFP issue. My wife was driving home when she suddenly got the warning about diminished power and the car would stall while idling. I met her at the dealer last night right before they closed and they took the car in but said they probably would not be able to look at it today. I'll see what they tell me on Monday.

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