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BMW's and The Mini Cooper

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Devilsown, Dec 28, 2008.

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Should Mini's be considered a BMW?

Poll closed Feb 11, 2009.
Yes, as they are made by BMW 8 vote(s) 42.1%
No, as they are Mini's and dont have the Roundel 9 vote(s) 47.4%
I'm Not sure, thats a good question 2 vote(s) 10.5%

    Devilsown guest

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    I own both a Mini Cooper and A BMW and I have some questions for all of you.

    Do you feel that a Mini Owners should be considered a BMW owner or even affiliated with BMW(s)

    What are your feeling that Mini's are so closely assosited with BMW

    I ask this as I had my Mini before my M3 and people always asked me who made it (they didnt understand Mini was the "car make") I always told them that its a Mini Cooper BUT BMW makes it so its a really nice car both inside and out, I always felt akward saying it was made by BMW and have never really felt that the Mini has desered to have BMW affilitated with it.

    I would really like to know how ya'll feel about it.

    I have the BMW CCA sticker on my Mini but feel wierd having on there (wife didnt want it on her car)

    I always have loved BMW's and belive fulled that it is one of the best if not the best car made, as it is "The Ultimate Driving Machine" and so far I feel that the "DAS COOPER" is living up to that motto, not only that the price tag on the little bugger is up there... and dont even get me started on parts, yet alone getting it serviced at a stealership, or finding on for that matter that is less than 3.5 hours away.

    Anyways Please vote with how you truly feel, and give me some feed back please.
    • Member

    jabutlerjr

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    MINI by BMW

    I think you should quit worrying about it. BMW makes the MINI car brand, although parts come from other manufacturers, like Chrysler and Peugeot for the engines, and I hear that part of the design was also outsourced. Several companies made the "original" Mini Coopers back when that two-word name was a model of car. Look at BMW as a multi-brand manufacturer that sells some models under that name and other models under a different name. BMW is even looking at starting a third brand for city cars under the Triumph or Isetta name.

    BMW CCA has already decided the MINI is a BMW--the cars are covered by a special column in the Roundel. Which suggests the question, what the Roundel will call the column for the city car line? Bimmer Lite is already taken.

    So here are my suggested questions and answers:

    What brand? MINI.

    What model? Cooper or Cooper S.

    Who makes it? BMW.
    • Member

    lcjhnsn

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    I must start off by saying I really don't mean to anger Devilsown or any other Mini enthusiasts here, but I have to say that my feelings are mixed on this subject.

    On the one hand, BMW has always been about longitudinal front engine rear drive cars designed and built with the intent to be DRIVEN to the full extent of their capabilities. (I will intentionally ignore the current crop of AWD BMWs so as not to cloud the issue) The modern BMW combines superior performance with creature comfort. Whereas so many of the other "top shelf" automakers are targeted for a much less enthusiastic driver and put luxury above performance. I would go further to say that the majority of BMW automobile buyers, particularly here in Connecticut, do indeed buy for the prestige of the BMW name and have no intent (or ability) to drive the car as it was designed to be driven.

    So, the Mini is not a longitudinal front engine, rear drive automobile. But it certainly seems to hold up the other characteristics of a BMW, in that it is meant primarily to perform and then adds comfort and convenience features to that baseline.

    In the end, I guess it really doesn't matter. I appreciate my BMW for what it does, not for the Company's name. But "what it does" is inseparably tied to the engine/drivetrain layout. The Mini certainly satisfies the design and performance traditions of a BMW, but I personally have a hard time calling the side winder front drive car a BMW.

    After all that, I will say that I am always happy to be in the presence of fellow true automotive enthusiasts who appreciate exploring the full ability of their car no matter which end makes it go [IMG]
    • Member

    az3579

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    At first I didn't consider MINI to be a BMW. I thought that Front Wheel Drive completely ruins everything and that something with such a hideously ugly interior could possibly be called a BMW.


    But then, I saw how one drove. FWD or not, it is a great handling vehicle, and... well, what BMW isn't? That is what BMWs are known for (at least to those who don't buy just for the brand). Hell, this is why my former boss bought a BMW, soley for the way it drives.

    This is kind of like how the Dodge Sprinter here really is a Mercedes under a different badge. It's not something that Mercedes could get away with in this country (selling a large truck mode soley for the purpose of... *gasp* .. work!), so they sell it under the Dodge brand so it wouldn't 'tarnish' their image. I think BMW is doing something along those lines with the Mini - a great car, but they don't want it under their name. But, when it comes to tarnishing the image, I seriously think that's been done already with the SUVs, but that's just my take on it.


    So in all, I'm mixed on what to call the MINI. In a way, I think it's a BMW because it really isn't its own manufacturer, and they only have one model (the Clubman to me is a Mini estate, really), so it can't really fall under its own name. The other way, I don't think it's a BMW, because certain traits of it are so un-BMWish, such as FWD and that horrendous interior.

    Honestly, I don't know what to call it.

    Devilsown guest

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    Im not going to get mad or upset, I just wanted to see how BMW owners feel, its nice to see people being honest after all everyone is entitled to their own opioion.

    "with such a hideously ugly interior could possibly be called a BMW." :eek: I like be but as I said its what you think.

    anyways thanks for all your honest input.

    1996 328ti guest

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    Let's not forget that BMW also make AWD, SUVs and station wagons.
    People gasped at the idea of an SUV, oh forgive me, SAV.
    And a station wagon is a Touring.

    I wonder if new Rolls Royce owners consider theirs to be BMW. :confused:
    • Member

    lcjhnsn

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    I can't say that I have an opinion on the appearance of the MINI interior, but Botond, have you ever seen the gauge cluster on a Z4? Eeeww! I guess if that's the criteria, we must banish the Z4 folks too [IMG]

    Regarding the SAVs and other AWD models... please refer to my original comment regarding the percentage of BMW owners who could be considered enthusiasts.
    • Member

    kkratoch

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    Should Mini's be considered BMW's? No, they are two different cars. That is like asking, "Should VW's be considered Audi's?" They are even closer related, but I think the answer is no. Now, does that stop Mini or VW from being a great car? No way. I have always thought of BMW's to be front engined, rear driven cars with as close to possible weight distribution of 50%/50%. I do realize some models deviate from this formula, I feel this is the heart of the BMW brand. The mini is a great car in and of its own, but different than and separate from a BMW. That is just my 2 cents worth.
    • Member

    az3579

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    Agreed 100%. Some of the recent designs are very questionable and I would hate for them to continue on the path of the Z4/X3 instrument clusters. But, I'll gladly have one of those clusters over a Mini's.


    And as for "SAVs", they are disappointing me once more. I remember when people used to ask me "why are you such a BMW freak?" and I used to tell them because BMW doesn't make any "common" types of cars that would just dilute the performance/driving oriented designs. Then came the X5 and it was like getting punched in the stomach; it was the first step towards being "just another" car manufacturer. I liked how BMW didn't make a front-wheel-drive car, an SUV, or a minivan. Those are soooo "every day". I used to love how BMW wrang out as much power out of their engines as the competition without using less reliable forced induction, and if they had less power than the competition, they at least outhandled them.

    But now, it seems that BMW is falling behind. First, SUVs, then conservative interior styling replacing the more driver-oriented experience, and next thing you know, and feel free to shoot me for this: minivans.



    But the reality is that BMW is making a larger variety of vehicles, which is unfortunate in my opinion, but they are at least trying to do it the best. Take the X5/X6 SAVs for example. I've been told that they handle just like a regular road car, and that on a track, handle better than other makes' models. Minis, despite being front wheel drive, are extremely chuckable machines and are worthy of track days without pulling your hair out (or understeering into a tree).




    I feel I may be ranting a bit, kind of like how my co-worker can't stop talking about politics...:rolleyes:
    • Member

    ChrisV

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    And apparently also ignore the cars that saved BMW early on: the Isetta, 600, and 700.

    Guys, BMW is a CAR manufacturer, and as such, is in business to make money. Period. That's why they make SUVs. And it keeps them independant.

    Like Porsche, an enginering company that built sports cars and did engineering for other companies. they made an SUV to make money, remain independant, and finally, made enough money to BUY VW/Audi.

    Making the Mini allowd BMW to make money from a full line of vehicles, and making money allows them to keep on racing, and building exiting driver's cars.

    BIMMIR guest

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    I wonder if Mini was a good way for BMW to have some involvement in another segment of cars (and audience of drivers) to fill a (front wheel drive) niche. Imagine how purists would have felt if BMW devloped their own front wheel drive platform? Maybe BMW was thinking, down the road, the mini driver might move into a BMW. I don't have any bad feelings about mini's or their drivers. I personnally prefer BMW's because of the spirit of the cars and the way they drive. They are a driving machine, not just an appliance. I don't feel BMW's involvement with Mini compromises BMW in any way. You know, a Mini appears to be well engineered and a spirited machine. While it's not my choice, I can still appreciate it, and the passion that Mini drivers have for their cars. "It's all good!"

    1996 328ti guest

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    I think in some ways the Mini filled a need for an entry level vehicle. It's funny though, the few Mini owners I know probably would have never bought a BMW because of the snob effect. But take offense when people don't consider them a BMW.

    Also there are different types of Mini owners, just as BMW owners.
    Some buy them for the enjoyment of driving, some because it was a new[Mini] and trendy thing to do.

    Devilsown guest

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    Its funny you say that as soon I as I got my wife her M3 people at her work acted diffrent towards her as she now had a BMW, she was still the same person but due to the car she was/ is treated diffrent and now we are "rich" its a 97 for gods sake piss off...

    I never really liked the Mini when it came out, it did grow on me a bit, then I few back home on some leave and got to take a close look at my buddys 02 MCS and I really liked it, Then he decied to show me the handling on it and well I must say I still have skid marks in my pants. Then I drove his, and I must say It was Nice, it didnt drive like typical BMW but it was still damn nice.

    1996 328ti guest

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    Our neighbors treated us differently when I bought my 98 318ti. The bastard stepchild of BMW NA. And almost 1/2 the price of their SUVs at the time.

    Even my E30 got keyed. People. :confused:
    • Member

    Satch SoSoCalifortified

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    Is it a BMW or a Mini-and do we care?

    Lance put it well, I think:

    That's the thing about the BMW CCA: We're a group of nut-ball car enthusiasts. The keys are camaraderie and the joy of driving. As BMW puts it, the Freude am Fahren. As Mini puts it, "Let's motor."

    (Oh, and don't sweat the BMW owners who look down their noses at Minis. They look down their noses at other BMWs, too! This is a cult with very dedicated subsects.)
    • Member

    lcjhnsn

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    Herr Editor also makes an excellent point
    • Member

    MGarrison

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    Q: When Satch assumed his editorial duties after Yale Rachlin, he was:

    a. Heir Editor
    b. Hair Editor
    c. Hare Editor
    d. Herr Editor
    :p
    • Member

    az3579

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    Oooooo, ooooo, I know this one! It's A! No, it's C! No, I meant B! Uh, it's D, I swear on my Bimmer's 2.7l powerhouse!


    I'd quite like to see Satch become a Hair editor, though. :D
    Who knew editing hair could be so humorous...
    • Member

    lcjhnsn

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    I don't know what you guys are talking about [IMG]
    • Member

    MGarrison

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    Ha! lol :p We have another EDITor! :D;)

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