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Autocross (was: Ofest Suggestions)

Discussion in 'Oktoberfest 2013' started by gvcmel, Feb 2, 2013.

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    mattm

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    A bazzillion. :D The definition would be to isolate the BMW classifications and go from there. Lemme see if I can generate that. This pdf (see link below) did not render correctly (prolly pulled from excel) pages 2-3 have the BMWs and 20-21 have the classes. I sent a note advising them of this. http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2013 Stock by manufacturer.pdf
    I just printed and taped it together and they do match. There are some gaps that us BMW folks could clarify. Please note this is stock classes. Some of the non-eligible go to higher prep classes (this was done when they were first introduced and as time has moved on they could be classed in stock classes if requested. The Z8 and '95 M3 Lightwieght as good examples.).
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    mattm

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    To answer your question Steve we are up to 72 classes (open and women's classes).

    There is a "road tire" class schema that is still a work in progress but it seems to be gaining legs. For now on the national events they only break it down to just three class (AWD, FWD, RWD) and use the PAX/RTP factoring from there.
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    steven s

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    The idea is to reduce the number of classes and make it more competitive.
    When it comes factoring mods, tires it becomes difficult for many.
    I can't say this enough times, there are people that don't know what model car they have.
    Let alone what motor and mods they have.
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    gvcmel

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    The easy answer is way too many ;)

    Steve, if you are interested I'll extract the BMW references/classes and forward them. I've run the 330i in STX (street tuner - over 3 liters or turbo) for two years and it is a very competitive placement.
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    mattm

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    Maybe the three of us can work on something viable that doesn't mean everyone gets a trophy :) but keeps things as fair as possible.
    steven s likes this.
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    steven s

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    Keep in mind, we are using GGC's rules this year.
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    mattm

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    Link for GGC "rulez?"
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    steven s

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    I believe we are going to have a separate link for them.
    Mel found them. I'm sure he will post the link.
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    steven s

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    A ladies class? Really? They think women can't drive as well as men?
    72 classes and 3 deep in trophies. Yikes!
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    mattm

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    No they want to allow the opportunity for all to play without feeling intimidated. But it derived decades ago . Ask Brianne Corn or Shawna Maranus (sp) about it. Shawna won ASP open in 1998. Brianne won B Modified in 2011. Lynne Rothney-Kozlak has been running the open classes for years.

    I've run in Super Stock (in 2010 in an '04 Viper woo hoo), and trophies went 16 deep in a class of 61 cars (Z06s, GT3s. Lotus Elises.
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    CRKrieger

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    'Marinus' ... and yeah; SCCA has run parallel 'L' classes for longer than I've been running (late '80s). It's been relatively recently that some have chosen to run in 'open' classes just to show us they can kick our butts; as if the time sheets wouldn't show that. :oops:
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    steven s

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    That's why we started a rookie class when someone suggested a woman's class.
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    MGarrison

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    I wonder if those goals may be at odds with each other - more rules and complexity tend to be what is needed to make things as fairly competitive as possible; making things simpler or broadening the scope of classes may mean less fairness or competitiveness for any variety of reasons.

    With the exception of the issue of dedicated auto-x tires, I've always thought the O'Fest rules struck a pretty good balance, appropriate for the event.

    You'll always have folks who don 't know the specifics of their car, that's just the way it is for an O'Fest - how many of those are there, does it makes sense to simplify things further for those that just don't know up front - and, how important is it to be determined up front when one registers - it's not like those running the auto-x can't help somebody figure their car classification at the auto-x, if need be. It looks like there were some 100+ O'Fest auto-x participants across both days - I presume the number of participants end up being less than those initially signed up, but if, say, some 130 people sign up for the auto-x, what percentage have no idea of how to classify their car? 25? 30? Half the entrants? Is it exceptionally time consuming for some reason to get those signed up for the auto-x who don't know assigned to a correct classification? Maybe there are other ways around that too - perhaps ask auto-x participants for vehicle serial numbers, which would allow referencing the vehicle's specifics in case they don't know what class they fall in and trunk badges aren't indicative enough, or something like that. If those who don't know enough to have any idea what class their car might fall into are numerous enough to be an issue, seems to me there might be any variety of ways to help address that particular administrative issue. If the goal in reducing classes is primarily to expedite the time consumed in trophy awarding at the banquet, my prior suggestion for that was off-load that to the event itself, and/or maybe limit the banquet part to FTD and whatever's appropriate to the sponsor. The Bridgestone guys have certainly been very supportive in recent years in both course-side support and prizes, it's no small deal to dedicate their transporter and guys to the whole week, so they or any sponsor deserve more than just lip service.

    In any case, we'll see what Golden Gate chapter auto-x rules have in store of O'Festers, and see how it works out!
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    steven s

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    When I say reduce the number of classes, I'm really leaning towards reducing the number of unused trophies. We have to order trophies far in advance.
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    mattm

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    I skated by Lynne at Nationals this year. Her husband Paul, her and I traded wins through out the year. Then Tony Savini and Lane Borg took us all to task at Nationals. I did hate being beat by the Cayman (and one out of trophies).
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    190833

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    Don't want to impede on the Golden Gate Chapters rules, but the Rocky Mountain Chapter has a very simple, easy to follow classing structure for BMW's that might be worth taking a look at.

    http://autocross.rmcbmwcca.org/Class.php
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    MGarrison

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    Ah - only thing I can think of to achieve that is design a trophy that could have every O'Fest logo adapted to it, except you'd have to find time for 'trophy assembly' for however deep you're taking the the class placers, between the end of the auto-x days and trophy presentation. For it to be something decent, you'd probably have to go lucite that a front-sticking label could be applied to the back (along the line, sorta, of the Atlanta O'Fest auto-x trophies, except bigger), and perhaps a more general auto-x logo with class & place already cut into the back. Could always solicit the generic auto-x part of the design from members via the Roundel, or have a contest. Then, if in any particular year you didn't have a 7th place finisher for class 3W-prepared-modified-extreme, the trophy might be used the next time you do. Instead of ending up with unused trophies, you end up with unused self-adhesive stickers or whatever, presumably at less expense than custom designed trophies every year. Would need to be well-done however; done wrong and the club will come off looking chintzy. (Think "And now, our first place winner, winning a fabulous can of tasty "Cheese-Whiz", is..... (insert somebody's name here) - and they go on to say "Oh boy! Cheese-Whiz!! Wow! You shouldn't have! No, you really shouldn't have!")
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    steven s

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    One year we applied placards to each trophy the day of the awards.
    We couldn't get the placards straight and it to an enormous amount of time.
    Now I believe we will be reusing unused trophies by having them sanded down.

    For me it's not about so many trophies. It's so many not handed out.

    BTW- Due to a change of plans we are going back to the traditional Ofest classes.
    M3, 1 M coupe and race cars on Friday, everyone else on Thursday.
    I'll will update the registration instructions.
    Hopefully we can get together and look at new classes for next year.
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    MGarrison

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    Even with a 'relatively' straightforward classing system, I get that - no way to predict ultimately who shows and runs regardless of who signed up and how far in advance, meaning some classes have 1 or maybe 2 participants, if at all, & thus, unused trophies. No surprise that trying to assemble trophies in a hurry turns into a stressful time-crunch fiasco, either. If plaques could be used for individualizing, trophies could have a precisely-sized cutout to fit the plaque - thin labels are obviously too flimsy to likely be easily positioned straight; plaques printed/silk-screened/whatever with O'Fest logo might work with a cutout idea, or maybe there's a way to print up/make thick plaque-like or badge-like (less flimsy, anyway) labels that could work. Hmmmmm....
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    Smed330

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    Hey, just logged on and found this thread. Wish I was playing on here for the last month. Mel, you should have said something was brewing.
    Even though I only autocross once or twice a year, I have toted tires to all the O'Fests from 2002 to 2011. Easy enough since just two of us in the car. After three FTD's in a row with the 330 on slow car day (counting Road America), driving the 1M on street tires last year was a kick. No anticipation of going fast and no purchasing tires. I do believe though, that I would have been much closer to FTD with the sticky tires. Not necessarily more fun, but faster for sure.
    That said, I have long thought that Bridgestone is not best served by offering tires to those running slicks. Chris has said that they don't care about that, but makes one feel a bit off.
    I don't know that I have any real ideas to offer for future events right now, but would like to participate in helping to establish a possible direction for future events. Shall we talk at O'Fest this year to start for next year? I think best handled with a Franziskaner in hand.

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