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328i performance improvements

Discussion in 'E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006-2011)' started by sundevilruss, Oct 18, 2010.

    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    It may seem a bit odd to you, but if one looks at it from a business point-of-view, there just isn't a significant amount of people who would buy the products to ramp-up the performance of a 328's normally aspirated engine when its counterpart already exist in the version of a 335.

    Folks buying a 335 are far more into performance than 328 buyers.... or, they would be buying 328's. And, again, unless someone has a LOT of cash to throw away on a hobby (hopping up an engine), why re-invent the wheel? If I was looking at performance, why would I buy a base model with the idea of making a hot ride, when the hot ride already exists (and again, most likely at a lower cost, and far better engineered than what 99.9999999999% of engine builders could create)?

    And, with a 4 year warranty?

    No customers- = no products.

    Makes perfect sense to me.

    bwillia guest

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    Well all I can say is that I'm glad that when I was younger all the producers of aftermarket hop up parts for Pony cars disagreed with you and that today all the SEMA producers generally disagree.
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    Then you should have no difficulty finding all the parts you need to "hop-up" a 328i, making it "better" and more reliable than a 335, and at a cheaper price.

    Good luck with that...

    Also, please note that we aren't discussing Pony cars, Chevy small blocks or Mopar engines, but specifically BMW 3 series normally aspirated engines.

    bwillia guest

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    Well, but your point was more general and I quote:

    "And, again, unless someone has a LOT of cash to throw away on a hobby (hopping up an engine), why re-invent the wheel? If I was looking at performance, why would I buy a base model with the idea of making a hot ride, when the hot ride already exists (and again, most likely at a lower cost, and far better engineered than what 99.9999999999% of engine builders could create)?"


    For as long as there have been cars people that like to tinker with them have always tried to take some ordinary car and make it extraordinary. Pick up an issue of "Euro Tuner" some day and you will see how many people do extraordinary things with 3 series and all other forms of European cars. The SEMA aftermarket business is a multi billion dollar industry serving just those type of people. I take it you are not a tinkerer and that is perfectly OK but it is not realistic to believe that nobody would want to modify any kind of car BMW or not. And your comment that I should have no problem finding parts was my original surprise observation so we digress. Ironically if I wanted to modify my 335i and make it like its "counterpart" (M3) I would have no problem doing that with factory authorized parts and I wouldn't have to buy an M3, but I cannot make my 328 more like a 335. Just an observation that I find interesting. Sorry if that makes you irritated.
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    No irritation on my part at all.

    And, no digression from the subject, either. After all, the thread is all about increasing 328 performance, but you were the one interjecting pony cars, etc.

    As I stated in the COMPLETE paragraph...


    Folks buying a 335 are far more into performance than 328 buyers.... or, they would be buying 328's. And, again, unless someone has a LOT of cash to throw away on a hobby (hopping up an engine), why re-invent the wheel? If I was looking at performance, why would I buy a base model with the idea of making a hot ride, when the hot ride already exists (and again, most likely at a lower cost, and far better engineered than what 99.9999999999% of engine builders could create)?


    You evidently feel like there is quite a bit of pent-up demand for parts to hop-up a 328, yet by your own admission above, that doesn't appear to be the case... else, a large number of parts to do so would indeed be available.

    So, why do YOU think they aren't?

    My opinion (as well as others) was simply that an extreme few would undertake such a task, especially when a 335 is readily available (the most one is likely to get from a 328, by the way).... with full manufacturer's warranty, and most likely superior (and reliable) engineering.

    Its no stretch to say that the vast majority (likely well above 98%) of those wanting that kind of performance would buy a 335 from the get-go .vs. a 328, providing money is not an issue.

    Nor am I against you (or anyone else) tinkering with your car...do what you wish.

    However, in today's modern automobile world, there are far fewer owners willing (or able) to modify their vehicles as was done back when I was a teenager (late 1960's and early 70's). Things are far more complicated today, and most would find the cost of the necessary tooling/equipment required to do so to be prohibitive.... Not to mention emission restrictions and such which no one gave a second thought to in 1970...
    • Member

    eam3

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    The market has spoken. Nobody in their right mind spends a good chunk of money on a 328 planning on modifying it to 335 levels, it's just not financially sensible. Just buy a 335 and you're done. The market knows this and would rather spend their efforts adding more power to the "performance" version of the 3 series.
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    I agree.....especially since the vast majority of 328's (I would guess at least 80% at a minimum) are equipped with traditional automatic transmissions.

    Hardly the first choice for anyone attempting to create a performance vehicle...

    bwillia guest

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    You guys could be right about demand, Don't know for sure. In another post "NotTheStig" posted a likely scenario as well when he stated "Another factor is the magnesium alloy block BMW developed for the N52 engine--the first in the world. Despite the advantages of this new technology, BMW thought it unsuitable for use in their own turbocharged engines, opting instead for tried-and-true aluminum alloy blocks. That would be enough to make any decent aftermarket engineer think twice about what it might cost to develop a proper FI kit for the N52--one that wouldn't destroy engines."
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    Well, its certainly another "strike" against modifying the engine.

    Going in a different direction for a moment, let's forget about the alloy issue. I'm curious...

    If you were attempting to increase output of a 328, what changes would you make (along with detailing the expected expense of each change/modification, as well as expected HP increase) to the engine (and, since many of these products don't appear to be available, please use the relative costs of a similar product)?

    I ask this because the base cost of a 2011 328i Coupe (230 HP) is $36,700 and a 2011 335i Coupe (300 HP) is $43,150...a $6450 difference. And, a 4 year warranty...

    So, to make economic sense, one has to come in under that amount with the same (or more) HP with at least the same level of reliability (maybe you can do a better job than BMW by leaving out the HPFP...LOL!).

    Economically speaking, I freely admit that I don't see the value in going that direction..especially since the next step up is the 335is Coupe, which cost an additional $7000 ($50,150) over the 335, with only a 20 HP increase.

    And, it must also meet the current emissions standards.

    But, I'll keep an open mind.

    bwillia guest

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    Actually the desire to change my car doesn't work out to a comparison of the cost of 328 versus 335 new cars. My situation is that I have an 07 328 that I love. It is fully loaded and only has 24K on the Odometer. It is a CPO till January 2013. The cost to upgrade this car to a new 335 would be closer to 25K to 27K for a similarly loaded car. I could upgrade to a used 335 but then I would have to worry about HPFP and other maintenance and use and care issues. I would rather not do that. I take very good care of my cars and this one could theoretically last me for a very long time to come. I do travel to high altitude often though and the normally aspirated 328 gets a little asthmatic up there. Forced induction makes an enormous difference at altitude. So for my purposes forced induction of some sort would still be the most effective change but alas that does not seem to be a viable option here. There are various power options out there for my car like cold air intake, exhaust and power box options with different fuel and timing mapping but all of those would produce minimal gains for my application. I have gotten used to the torque curve of my car and have learned how to drive it to maximize its power band. I have upgraded the exhaust to Remus and the Brakes to Stop Tech. And added some peripheral items like a rear deck lip spoiler, Beyern wheels and Conti DW rubber. And 3M tint on the windows. All in all I'm pretty happy with the car but as a gear head I'm always longing for a little more power. It is a disease. I may very well have to break down and swap for a 335 and start over with the customization but I'm not there yet.

    BTW My situation is a much more typical one for finding someone that wants to modify their existing base model. If it was purely a decision between the 328 and 335 on the showroom floor then that would be a no-brainer and I would be in total agreement with your logic between the two.
    • Member

    SpeedOften

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    I read on another forum - one more E9X oriented, that is is possible to install the E90 330i intake manifold to the 328's which will give that boost in power you're looking for. It costs a little bit of money though, using oem parts and then getting the ecu reflashed to work with the different intake manifold and be able to switch to the different stages within the intake manifold.

    But it's an option....

    bwillia guest

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    Thanks for the tip. I appreciate it and I will look into that.
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    I understand where you are coming from in your view.

    Its my guess that what you have discovered is the difference equipment manufacturers see between a mass-produced engine in a readily-available, easy to find and afford auto (think Chevy small block) and an engine in a much more "exclusive" environment (BMW-higher priced/higher tech commodity).

    Companies are in business to make money, and one can make a lot more selling a product to 100,000 potential buyers than selling a similar product to 1000 potential buyers
    • Member

    eam3

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    No, the market does. Thanks for your useless input dip****.
    • Member

    eam3

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    Ethan, when you finally get your GED and can distinguish between your and you're (as in "you're welcome") feel free to have conversations among the adults.

    Until then, stop digging up old posts just to counter anything I've said. I was merely making a joke about the clock in your car. Sorry you have such thin skin and cannot distinguish between a joke and a serious personal attack. If you have anything to say to me, take it to private messaging since you're now on my ignore list.
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    OK...I'll bite....

    What's your explanation for the limited availability of performance-enhancing equipment for 328's?

    If the "market" is there, then where are the parts?

    Just curious...

    Or, maybe the market really is there , and I just don't know about it....
    • Member

    bcweir

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    Excuse me, I hate to disrupt this wonderful 328i vs. 335i upgrade debate...

    ...but do any of you realized that the OP (original poster's) original thread was inquiring about a MUFFLER for their 328i?



    While I am certain that the debate over whether or not there is a sufficient market for 328i superchargers and turbos is a stimulating one, I would hope that such a conversation would be strong enough to merit its OWN thread, instead of having to hijack someone else's?

    Just a thought.
    • Member

    Satch SoSoCalifortified

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    Thanks, Brian!

    Yes, let's try to herd these critters back inside the corral, shall we? ;)

    Ethan, Ed: I hate to sound like an adult here, but this is not the Internet free-for-all that characterizes too many forums. We like to keep the discourse civil around here; we also appreciate standard grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

    So you kids knock off the name-calling and general snottiness---or we'll SIC STEVE ON YOU! :eek: :eek: :eek:
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    Well, actually....He wrote...

    Bavarian Auto sells Scorpion and Remus muffler kits for my car and am interested in opinions on these or other aftermarket products that I could install that provide tangible improvements.

    But, I get your drift..

    The thread had pretty much lost any usefulness, anyway...
    • Member

    sundevilruss

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    Sniveling and bullying aside, if the string gets (keeps) people talking about the merits of improving(?) the 328i I have no problem with the conversation taking natural tangents.

    Initially, I was most interested in opinions of particular exhaust change options. The last thing I wanted to do is drop a grand and a couple of hours into unrealized expectations and a resentment.

    Thanks all!
    Russ

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