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What a shocker... or maybe not?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by ForcedInduction, Jul 13, 2010.

    ForcedInduction guest

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    While not directly BMW related it may be peace of mind for some to know that the so called Toyota unintended acceleration issues were driver error induced and not black box issues. The Dept. of Transportation's investigation produced the same conclusion as NHTSA's and an independent investigation, in addition to Toyota's own investigation.

    So these cars are not possessed and the black boxes have not taken over control of our vehicles - yet. ;)

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38231384/ns/business-autos/
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    Zeichen311

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    So that's now four separate studies to discover something that could have been accomplished with a single phone call ... to Audi? ;)

    Given how that played out a quarter-century ago, I doubt Toyota (or the rest of us) have heard the last of the counter-arguments.

    ForcedInduction guest

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    I'm sure some siren chasers will attempt to profit but it's tough arguing with a very objective black box. ;)
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    Pyewacket1

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    Actually, the Audi issue is STILL being played out in court.

    From....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration

    As of early 2010, a class-action lawsuit filed in 1987 by about 7,500 Audi Audi 5000-model owners remains unsettled and is currently contested in county court in Chicago after appeals at the Illinois state and U.S. federal levels.[21] The plaintiffs in this lawsuit charge that on account of the sudden acceleration controversy, Audis had lost resale value.[24]

    The lawsuits surrounding the reported sudden acceleration episodes were a subject of Peter W. Huber's 1993 book, Galileo's Revenge: Junk Science In The Courtroom.

    ForcedInduction guest

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    Audi owners probably did lose resale value but they should be suing 60 minutes or whomever it was that did the bogus TV show with a rigged car to imply unintended Audi 5000 acceleration. How can Audi be held responsible for a fradulent TV broadcast that they had absolutely nothing to do with?
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    eam3

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    My parents had an Audi 5000 during this whole debacle in the 80s. I remember thinking at the time how ridiculous this whole thing was because whenever I drove the car, it wouldn't accelerate even if you wanted it to, it had no power (something like 110hp). My dad and I decided to test the acceleration while applying the brakes and that car did not move an inch. I assumed the results would be pretty much the same for Toyota.
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    Pyewacket1

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    Frankly speaking, everyone who buys a car experiences reduced resale value. Other than a guaranteed value stated in a lease-style contract, I have never been guaranteed or seen ANY residual stated value on a car.

    All we have here is an attempted transferrence of responsibility from one party to another.

    When gas prices go back up (and, they will!), should automakers be sued for the decreased market value of their SUV's and gas hogs?

    I got caught up in trading my wife's T & C Minivan during the last gas hike, and the market value tanked before I got rid of it. Where do I go/who do I sue to get my lost value? Maybe BP???

    LOL!!!

    ForcedInduction guest

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    Numerous people and car mags have actually tested a variety of cars including Toyotas, BMWs, etc. and the brakes will stop all of these cars even at WOT starting at a hwy. speed of 70-130 mph, so it's clearly driver error.

    ForcedInduction guest

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    My comment was not in regards to normal market situations regarding decreased value. Most people understand that when you sign, even before you drive off the lot, the car just depreciated 15%. That's reality. Changes in fuel prices, etc. change perceived value of autos. We all know or should know this.

    My comment has two points to it:

    1. Audi is in no way responsible for false claims by incompentent drivers or malicious fraud by a TV show to sensationalize a technical auto defect that never existed.

    2. Any lawsuit to recover damages for loss of value that results from the false claims of unintended acceleration that were misrepresented by a TV show for profit - should be filed against the TV show, not Audi.


    I do however expect BMW will be dealing with many a class action lawsuit for depreciated value on all N54 models with the chronic HPFP failures that have existed now for like 5 model years. That will be costly.
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    Zeichen311

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    Yup. I've explained this to friends and colleagues many times, ever since Audi took one on the chin. Any modern car's brakes can easily overpower its drivetrain...that's kinda by design. ;) If the brakes are in good working order and you're mashing the correct pedal, the car will stop. (There may be a lot of drama and an "eventually" involved, but it will stop.)
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    Pyewacket1

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    Hey, I'm in total agreement with your points above.

    Seems to me, however, that no one has a reasonable expectation of the future value of ANY product unless its written into the purchaser's sales contract. Of course, one can guess at the future value of an item (in fact, don't we all do that?)....even hope for a certain value, but there are so many factors beyond the seller's control (in most product sales, anyway) that it seems ludicrous to think a manufacturer can be held responsible for anything other than a proven flaw in the product's design or useability.

    If nothing else, the recent housing market crash demonstrates that...

    IMO, what 60 Minutes did was nothing more than slander (or is it libel, I forget...) that hurt BOTH the seller as well as the current and future owners. Something I call video extortion. And, I agree, they should be the one named in the lawsuit, not Audi (at least, in a perfect world).

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