Hello there and welcome to the BMW Car Club of America.

If you are a BMW CCA member, please log in and introduce yourself in our Member Introductions section.

SCR tank extended warranty

Discussion in 'Diesel' started by daveclose, Jun 5, 2017.

    • Member

    daveclose

    Post Count: 6
    Likes Received:0
    I have a 2001 335d. Today I got a letter from BMWNA extending the warranty on the SCR active tank to 10 years/120,000 miles. That's good news because I understand that these are trouble-prone and very expensive to replace. But does anyone have some background on this? I imagine that many owners had expensive trouble if BMW is extending the warranty out that far.
    • Member

    MGarrison

    Post Count: 3,494
    Likes Received:205
    I think there have been some threads on here already relaying other's unfortunate tales - try searching, or peruse the E9x forum.
    • Member

    daveclose

    Post Count: 6
    Likes Received:0
    Make that a 2011 335d. Damn clumsy fingers.
    • Member
    • Technical Service Advisor

    charlson89

    Post Count: 1,974
    Likes Received:106
    The SCR tank does have issues hence the extended warranty. Normally what fails is the level sensors for the tank and they can not be replaced separate. The active and passive tanks on this vehicle are combined so if you replace one you replace the other.
    • Member

    floydarogers

    Post Count: 342
    Likes Received:16
    There has been substantial discussion about this on the bimmerfest and e90post diesel forums. The SIB is 01 23 16, I'll attach it here.

    BMW extended the warranty on the X5 diesels back in September. They updated the SIB to add the 335d in May. The DEF tank costs around $4000 to replace at a dealer (I spent $3800 at an indy in December.) Many people have had to do the same because there are no BMW replaceable parts (the level sensor and temperature sensor) and the whole tank has to be replaced by BMW rather than the sensors (which cost only a couple hundred or less.) Fortunately, I (and others) will be reimbursed this cost in most cases. It's hard to quantify how many people have had problems, but I can count 2-3 dozen on those forums, which is indicative of a widespread problem.

    BMW may be reacting to the troubles that VW and now Mercedes and Fiat are having with diesel certification and maintenance. Interestingly, the newer F3x SCR systems have redesigned components (ultra-sonic level sensor and etc.) that eliminates most of the DEF tank problems.

    Attached Files:

    • Member

    floydarogers

    Post Count: 342
    Likes Received:16
    I wanted to add on to this that BMWNA last week added a 10/120K warranty for the NOx sensors for M57 motors. They cost $500-$650 each, so that's an additional savings (my bill was $1828 or so last year.) BMWNA has stepped up quite a bit on these emissions systems, IMO. Too bad I'm over 120K - anything else they extend a warranty on won't likely be covered.
    • Member

    cberry

    Post Count: 14
    Likes Received:1
    I've had both the SCR and NOx items mentioned above replaced under warranty. The work took less than a day and the repairs seem to be working (no flags) so far. Cost was totally picked up by BMWNA.
    floydarogers likes this.
    • Member

    339856

    Post Count: 14
    Likes Received:0
    Wow...If I had know about that in 2015 I wouldn't have sold my 335d. At just over 50k miles (I know right..who says BMW's implode at 50,001 miles?) my dealer had replaced the entire SCR system over a 10 month period. Thankfully I had a sweet deal on BMW extended waranty to cover the costs
    • Member

    daveclose

    Post Count: 6
    Likes Received:0
    My 2011 335d has 56K miles on it. I like the car very much and luckily for me the emissions warranty lasts to 7/70 because I've used it often. Injectors (that was under the new car warranty), sensors, de-carbonizing, a new cat converter at 50K (which should never happen) and now the SCR tank. I got the SCR extended warranty letter in June and didn't think much about it, but now it's saving me, what? - $2,500? Something like that. The tank is on backorder but it should be done in a few days. Meanwhile I get to drive this very nice 330i loaner with M stuff in it.

    I'm still a believer in diesels, and my 335d is a great car. I take care of it, leave it in the garage during bad weather, and maintain it by the book. Still, it throws so many SES lights that I should get a code reader and just hardwire it in. I hope that in the 328d they perfected all the emissions controls because this is crazy.
    • Member

    cberry

    Post Count: 14
    Likes Received:1
    Update to my 8/28/17 post:

    1. We fled from hurricane Irma and before getting to our evacuation destination of Ocala, Fl (circa 140 miles away) there was a warning: No more starts in 1,000 miles! Wrong fluid!, or something like that. Visited the Ocala dealership and they performed emergency surgery ( filled the DEF tank and sold me 4 bottles of DEF fluid) as the hurricane was approaching from only 100 miles away.

    2. We got home OK, and then a new warning appeared: No more starts in 200 miles! Red Flag warning. Home dealer, Melbourne FL, rechecked everything and returned the vehicle to service....gave it back to me "Operates as designed"

    3. Another Red Flag after 355 miles...No more starts in 200 miles! Returned to dealer. I specifically requested that they put 400-500 miles on the car after they 'think' they have it fixed. They replaced the DEF tank with another new one and then ran out the requested miles and retested the system finding no related failure flags, but did state that there is a new flag "Dosing Valve" which "Could be wearing out". Vehicle returned to service.

    4. I just completed a 2800 mile round trip to Texas and had no related flags or symptoms of a problem. The trip average mileage was 34.5 mpg at an average speed of 62 mph, and the approximate mileage on the vehicle is 93,000 miles. Maybe it's fixed...........time will tell. I wonder how long this DEF tank will be warranted?
    • Member
    • Technical Service Advisor

    charlson89

    Post Count: 1,974
    Likes Received:106
    If your out of manufacture warranty there is a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty on any Bmw parts.
    • Member

    mattm

    Post Count: 232
    Likes Received:6
    I found a very simple solution to the SCR and NOx problems on my 2010 335d. I sold it September 1. I was just about giddy seeing the tail lights drive away and I with cash in hand.

    I did pay for the SCR and NOx repairs in late 2015. The SCR tank was $1,499 for the part. Aftermarket with a lifetime warranty was $499. My dealership negotiated a reduced cost with BMWNA plus the dealerships discount to make it more palatable. But if you read the above mentioned forums, the SCR will fail again. My two year warranty on the parts would have been up this month. BMW did refund all of the SCR and a portion of the NOx repair (but no the thermostat that was prolly damaged as part of the failures) that I paid out of pocket.

    This summer the harmonic balancer (crank shaft pulley) failed. The part alone was $770. Labor on top of that. The CA also mentioned the need for brakes (pads n rotors) for "stupid money." Yes, I could prolly do it myself. But over the course of my 2.5 year ownership I also had intermittent squealing from a belt in hot weather after the car had sat after running. Diagnosis after the harmonic balancer replacement, I was told it was the AC compressor clutch. Guess what is not separately serviceable? That clutch. Rough estimates for the compressor replacement and associated servicing would be around $2,500 (on a good day). Don't forget that the cars get carbon build up that requires walnut shell blasting the manifold. Again not cheap.

    I have been a BMW "fanboi" since 2000. I do like the cars. But geez this is silly. A buddy with a indy BMW (and other cars) repair shop (and looong time BMWCCA member) said "Matt, BMW stopped making good cars about ten years ago." I'm inclined to agree. Yes, I will keep the 1M Coupe, but I doubt I'll get another BMW product. Oh, wait, what did I buy to replace the 335d? A Toyota Avalon Hybrid. Rock solid reliability. Good job BMW! [/rant]

    PS: In February of 2016 I was advised of a recall for the Takata inflator. Last month I received notice that they finally could fulfill and replace it on the 1M. A mere 21 months later. I will grant you this issue is with Takata. But......
    • Member

    daveclose

    Post Count: 6
    Likes Received:0
    I need some advice from you 335d owners. My 2011 has 58K miles on it. The past two years have been a long slog of warranty repairs on the emissions system. It runs perfectly, but I'm on a first-name basis with the SES light, which visits every few weeks. I've trying to decide if I should keep it now that all this work has been done, or sell it it. I have three cars and the 335d is my fun car – I never drive it in snow or even in bad weather. It's for weekends and once in a while a long trip. My decision is between keeping it, and hoping that the endless warranty repairs are finally done, or replacing it with something that would lease for around $350/month. So the question is: will the 335d, out of warranty, cost more than $4,200/year in repairs if I keep it three more years (30K miles)? It's had $15,000 of warranty work in 24 months. Here's the list:

    BMW 335d



    Date

    Service

    Cost (BMW)

    Cost (owner)


    06/11/15

    SES light. Cylinder drop on trip. Replaced injector, software update. 38,782

    $700.00


    09/14/15

    SES light. Checked injector, software update. 41,281

    $290.00


    11/17/15

    SES light. Carbon cleanout, piece damaged cylinder.
    New piston, injector #4, head gasket, con rod bolt, ATF change, 1 exhaust valve, oil change. 42,423

    $6,200.00


    04/25/16

    SES light. Pre-cat OXS sensor. 44,892

    $779.38


    01/17/17

    SES light. Replace 2 NOX sensors.
    Oil change, DEF fluid, brake fluid service, microfilter, new battery. 50,102

    $1,414.00


    02/09/17

    SES light. Catalytic converter. 50,874

    $3,500.00


    10/11/17

    SES, SCR tank replaced
    56,588

    $4,700.00



    Total

    $15,390.00

    $2,193.38

    $17,583
    • Member

    cberry

    Post Count: 14
    Likes Received:1
    Here's a 12/10/17 update to my 10/14/17 update to my 8/27/17 post. BUYER BEWARE!

    I now have a Service Engine Soon (SES) flag, ODO mileage is circa 97,000 miles. It came on a few days ago and then cleared itself after a day. That was a couple of weeks ago. This is now. I'm letting it remain flagged to see if it clears itself again. So far, it has not.

    I've owned diesels since the 1973 gas crises. This 335d has been a joy to drive when it works properly. The other diesels have been a '99 Mercedes TD, a '74 VW Rabbit, and an 85 Mercedes TD, none of which could beat a loaded school bus away from a stop light. The only benefit to ownership has been being able to bypass the gas lines whilst evacuating from a hurricane, only to stop at gas stations which have run out of gas, but still have diesel fuel. There is absolutely no other benefit to diesel ownership...only higher operating costs.
    • Member

    mattm

    Post Count: 232
    Likes Received:6
    daveclose: Have you gotten reimbursement from BMW on the SCR and NOx repairs as I think you are covered by the new warranty extensions? The cat converter should be covered by Federal emissions, too.

    FWIW Chuck, regular gas has been .30¢ cheaper than diesel up my way (Connecticut). I do miss the adaptive headlights, a heated steering wheel, and the Nav system. The Toyota nav doesn't have a great user interface (Chevy is worse, I had a 2018 rental Impala last week). But nothing else.
    • Member

    daveclose

    Post Count: 6
    Likes Received:0
    Yes, the SCR tank and cat were covered under the emissions warranty. BMW has been good about covering all this stuff. I've had about $15,000 or warranty work and $2,000 out-of-pocket. The OOP was one Nox sensor, which they said is not covered, and a major tuneup at 50K miles -- oil, fluids, battery, all kinds of stuff that was normal maintenance. My decision is: will be be solid for 2-3 more years after all this work, or should I get out now when it's all tuned up, cleaned up and running perfectly?
    • Member

    mattm

    Post Count: 232
    Likes Received:6
    You should ask BMW again about reimbursement of the NOx sensor.
    Here's the deal: The SCR and related parts WILL fail again. Along with a carbon blast etc. Sell it before another Check Engine Light (CEL) pops up again. The next go round might be out of pocket. : ^(
    • Member

    cberry

    Post Count: 14
    Likes Received:1
    Update to my 12/10/17 Post

    I've had several intermittent SES flags over the past month. They clear within a few days or miles. I plan to take the car to the dealer for a diagnostic read-out next time the flag is active.

    I wonder if the flags are related to the DEF service tank needing more DEF from the storage tank? And then having that need satisfied?
    • Member

    mattm

    Post Count: 232
    Likes Received:6
    Chuck, Autozone might be able to read the codes. They do it for free. Otherwise you can head to a dealership but they might charge (a lot) to read the code. The other option for a code read is to buy the Carly (Invini) for BMW OBDII reader that plugs in the OBD port and download the Carly app. It'll run you about $70-$80 for both, but worth it if you own a BMW. You can read codes along with setting things internal to the car that normally a dealership would have to do (five turn signal flashes instead of three, fog lights on with high beams) and other cool stuff.
    • Member

    cberry

    Post Count: 14
    Likes Received:1
    Update to my 1/9/18 post.

    The SES flag continues to alarm for a time and then clear. Exactly the same behavior as mentioned above with no lasting effects. The flag hasn't been ON long enough for me to get it to the dealer, who seems to be interested enough in the behavior to read the codes without charge. Time will tell.

Share This Page