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Right Sized but 1000 Pounds Heavier

Discussion in 'E81/E82/E87/E88 (2004-present)' started by CraigBMW2002, Mar 25, 2008.

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    CraigBMW2002

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    Had the chance to park my '71 2002 next to a 128i at Markel BMW a few days ago. The new coupé is almost the same size -- only an inch or two longer than my 2002. But the brochure gives its weight as 3252 pounds. That is a 1000 pounds more than my classic 2002.

    And there is an error in the first sentence of the brochure:

    "Forty years after the 2002ti first arrived in the U.S. and launched the sports sedan concept, . . ."

    The 2002ti with its dual sidedraft carbs could not pass US emission standards. So Hoffman Motors couldn't import it into the USA. However, BMW exported the ti to Canada. Over the years, a few ti's have slipped across the border into the USA.
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    330indy1

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    wow, that's the weight of my E46 4 door 330i

    1 series weight has to be compensated for. To feel light a lot of power is thrown at it. Kinda like the new M3.

    jtpuma57 guest

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    I just picked up my new 135i this past weekend. All I can say is wow! I often catch myself grinning as I take a curve or corner while accelerating ! What a great car! I can only imagine what the first 2002ti owners must have felt like when they first drove off in their new cars! I am looking forward to many years of happy ownership of this vehicle.
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    CraigBMW2002

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    One Series Bimmers are Impressive

    With my original post, I was not implying that the one series Bimmers are not impressive. Rather the three series has grown from generation to generation so that the E90-E93 are comparable in exterior length to the E12 and E28 fivers.

    But the early 2002s are a thousand pounds lighter than a 128i coupé. But they are also devoid of much of the equipment that car buyers expect today. The fuse box of my (January) '71 2002 only has six fuses to handle the electrical system. Air conditioning and power windows weren't even available as options.

    I took delivery on my 2002 at the factory, and yes those first few years (2½ in Europe) were excellerating. I can imagine how new one series owners feel when they drive their cars. However, the brochure for the one series coupé has an error, in that the 2002ti was never sold to buyers in the US because the twin carbs setup could not meet emissions requirements. The 2002ti was only available in Canada. When BMW came out with the mechanical (Kugelfischer) injection, the only model that they sent to the USA was the 2002tii. BMW first put this engine into the "Neue Klasse" sedans, the 2000tii model. I am not sure if they put this engine into the first E12 sedans as a 520i.

    williampben guest

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    1 series

    How BMW can make a "compact" that weighs 1,000 lbs more than the original 2002 is beyond all belief. What has happened? All new BMW's are fat and overweight. What gives? The power is there but you get the feeling you are driving a "luxobarge".
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    Bimmerdan

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    The 1 Series is definitely heavier than a 2002 but when you consider how much safer, quieter, more comfortable and faster it is, it makes perfect sense. They added 30% more weight, 200% more horsepower AND it gets better mileage...seems like a fair trade to me. I have a '75 2002, a 318ti Club Sport, an E36 M3 and I picked up my 135 coupe 2 weeks ago. The 135 is the perfect mix of all these cars!!

    Each car has gotten progressively heavier (2002 - 318ti - M3 - 135) but they've also gotten better in virtually every way. I still love driving every one of them but having lived with the 135 for a couple weeks now...it has exceeded my expectations in every area and the weight is a total non-issue for me.

    bimmernet guest

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    The 1er is a great car and...

    I'd love to describe you but mine is on the docks at Bremerhaven (has been since 4/3) , however I did drive one at speed the first day they were in and frankly wondered about the criticisms I'd heard like:

    1) It understeers
    2) It's too heavy
    3) It's only $5K cheaper than a 3 Coupe

    After I drove it I couldn't really understand the complaints, especially in view of the cars it was compared to the fine cars of my esteemed colleague above, Bimmerdan, who's been smart enough to hold onto his treasures. I too have had a nice collection (albeit a serial one; I had them one at a time): a '70 2002 (round tail light), 2 E36 M3's, an 2 E46 M3's and an MZ3. Of all of them the E36 M3's were the best all-around performers and the one that the 135i is truly the closest to in terms of balance of power, handling and braking.

    The MZ3 was over-powered for the chassis which flexed and hopped like the obsolete roadster it was. I traded it off for the last E36 in CA at the time and was happier for although it was a little slower on the all mighty 0-60 run, the E36 could run it down on a twisty road.. The E46 while faster had gotten bigger, heavier (even with expensive pieces like the Aluminium hood) and more difficult to drive at the limit. And while most M3 fans were overjoyed to get the "World" engine we missed in the US E36 M3 with it's (again) expensive Double VANOS, six butterfly inlet system engine,, we also got a peaky engine, semi exotic engine. I frankly thought the E36 high torque throttle body engine made steering by the throttle much easier. And come to think of it the 2002's were similar with their torquey motors and balanced near neutral handling.

    When I read about fellow 1er buyers that are already worried about their cars being obsoleted by a mythical (as yet unconfirmed M1, 1XXTti or whatever) and wanting a high pressure Turbo 4 pot motor I wonder why and have you driven the 135i at speed? The 1XXTti would really be a track rat where keeping the turbo on the boil at 6,000 RPM is easier to maintain power (E30 M1 anybody?) The 135i though will be a great all-around street and back road performer that has infinite tuning openness at a more reasonable price. Just my 02 cents worth.

    Bimmernet
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    330indy1

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    you liked the e36 m3 better than the e46?

    that is surprising...
    and you think the 135i compares mostly to that?
    Engine-wise? So I guess you're saying you don't feel compelled to rev the 135i (?)

    bimmernet guest

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    135i vs. E36 M3 and winding out the N54...

    For all around handling and engine response, yes, definitely I liked the E36 more. That doesn't mean that I would not have wanted more power; I was investigating Dinan's Turbo Conversion but bought the MZ3 instead. That was one of the bigger mistakes I've made in my automobile buying, selling and tuning. If I could have had more torque with a relatively flat curve in my '97 M3 then I would have been ultimately happier but never had owned a convertible so there was some benefit. In comparing the E36 to the 135i yes I think it will be in overall size, handling and response very close to that '97 M3 if I'd kept it and put the Dinan Turbo on.

    As far as winding it out; with the N54 you're developing Maximum Torque at 1,400-5,000 RPM and HP peaking at 5,800 in the Twin Turbo (N54) you could wind it out to 7,000 redline but it wouldn't get you much in terms of additional thrust. If you look at Dyno results (YouTube) for the 135i you'll see what's referred to as a torque "Plateau" that has two steep lines on either end. Once you're off the plateau and past the peak what's the point except to listen to the lovely engine at full scream?

    Bimmernet
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    Bimmerdan

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    I agree with Bimmernet (hmmm....Bimmernet / Bimmerdan...are we related??).

    The E36 M3 was (and still is) almost a perfect balance of power and handling. It's a very tossable chassis (the same "tossability" can not be said for the E46's I've driven, they were much heavier and needed to be aimed more than tossed) and the E36 still brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. The car simply never dissappoints. I track the M3 so I know what it's capable of when pushed to the limit but I have not had the opportunity to do the same with th 135 yet. I have no doubt it's going to be a wonderful car on the track as well but on the street, it's virtually flawless.

    As for a size comparison, here are the two parked side by side:

    [IMG]

    And just for fun, here's the 'stable' (E36 M3 coupe, E36 M3 sedan, E36 318ti Club Sport, 2002, 135 coupe)...

    [IMG]
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    CraigBMW2002

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    E36 & One Series

    Bimmerdan - Thanks for posting the pics of your E36 M3 and your 135i coupé next to each other. The two Bimmers seem comparable. We have had an E36 for two years now, and it brings a smile whenever Christine or I drive it. Ours is not as powerful as yours, as it is an Alpine White '98 323iC - manual shift manual top. You just have to have a manual in these Bimmers to bring out their responsiveness. Your 2002 in the group photo looks great - color must be Atlantikblau (like my '71) and headrests tell me that it is a '74. Have you ever thought about replacing the diving boards with Euro bumpers? Here in the heartland, both Keith Kreeger and Bo Black have put Euro bumpers on their '74 tiis, and the cars just look right that way. Both or their red tiis are pictured in the April Roundel. They are in the front row of the picture on page 81.
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    330indy1

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    is that a Miata I see in the garage? nice Bimmer collection by the way. Where do you keep them all??
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    Bimmerdan

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    Thanks! The 2002 is actually painted 'Topaz' blue (a later 3 series color). I really liked the looks of it on the 3 series, it was just a little more blue than the original Arktisblau. The Panasports helped to set the color off a little also, I really like the way it came out. As for the seats, they are aftermarket Koenig seats (still German!). I had the interior completely redone so the upholstery matches throughout.

    I've considered replacing the bumpers but I had a '71 that got tapped in the rear one time and let me tell you, they definitely look better than the big-bumpered cars but there is NO protection with those bumpers. Since I actually drive the '02 in traffic quite a bit, I decided to stick with the big ones (although I have shortened them a little so they don't stick out AS far).

    Good eye! Yes, that's a Miata patiently waiting for me to put the new top on. We bought that car new in early 1990 and it has been the absolute most reliable car we've ever owned (sorry BMW). It's still an absolute riot to drive, it gets great gas mileage and it still looks showroom new.

    Storage is my biggest challenge. I have a parking area built behind the garage so I have plenty of room but unfortunately, a couple of them have to sit out under car covers. My NEXT house will have an 8 car garage.....as long as my wife says it's OK.....:D

    bimmernet guest

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    Brothers by a different mother?

    Of course we're related, Bimmerdan, by nothing less than higher intelligence, right? OK, that's my narcissistic moment of the day, moving on...Bimmerdan gets the prize for the most intriguing collection of BMW's in home captivity. Like I said you were smarter than me by keeping all those lovely cars...Look at those lovely E36 M3's! Thank you for bringing back great memories. BTW: Is that a Lightweight next to the M3/4? You rock!

    The M3/4 (had one miss it) is the best sedan BMW has produced; fast, economical, safe and handles like a...well, I remember an ad they had for it with what looked like a F3 car with a driver and three passengers sitting on the side pods and rear wing. Before all you M5 fans flame my rear note the word "economical". Maybe I should use "practical" but I've raely been accused of being that. When I was in Internet Sales for BMW's, not too far back, I dug taking a M5 for a fast run but owning one was another matter. I think if there's one thing that links all of us 1er fans here it's the belief that the 3 series was (pre-E90) and now it's smaller siblings 1er's are what we think BMW's have always done best; overall outstanding performance for everyday driving. When I'm too old to ride my dirtbike I'll take up golf and when I (as in me-not them) start griping about back seats I'll buy a 5 Series. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    Bimmernet

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