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For the E32 lovers - a 5-spd for sale....

Discussion in 'E32 (1988-1994)' started by MGarrison, May 8, 2011.

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    MGarrison

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    Zeichen311

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    Holy crap, why couldn't this have turned up when I was looking for a car to "flip" last spring? That is gorgeous, right at the top of my (then) price range and a 5-SPEED...! :eek:

    There is a lot more info over at MyE28.com (found it by googling the phone #). I'm gonna go sulk now. :mad:

    (Oblig. sour-grapes observation: At 192k mi. I find it automatically suspicious that the clutch is not mentioned...there, I feel better.)
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    CRKrieger

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    Damn. I sure wish I wanted a black on black 735 more than I want a white on blue 635 ... :(

    I also wish I hadn't spent more than that going to Europe last month ... :cool:
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    bcweir

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    Crud! The link was pulled!

    A manual transmissioned E32 is a rare find indeed. BMW didn't build many of those. There are some aftermarket conversions out there that are just as interesting though.
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    CRKrieger

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    The car was sold.
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    MGarrison

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    The ad is still posted at mye28.com (Stig's link), but updated to 'sold'. Didn't think that would take too long... one of BMW's longest lived engines with an equally long-lived transmission, the only downside being potential electronic issues, but no worse than an E34 - no surprise it would go quickly.
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    CSBM5

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    We had two E32s back in the day...one was a 5spd with LSD, ordered that way in summer of 1987. Great cars for the most part, but the weakest link in my opinion is the HVAC "box" the car is essentially built around. Where the flap motors mount to the plastic box is subject to fracture (so you get some nice HOT heat pouring out a vent or vents while trying to get A/C, etc), and perhaps there is some other issue with respect to that whole system.

    On our white one, it was fixed the first time under warranty and then about 3 years later out of warranty. On the blue 5spd one, fixed twice out of warranty (huge labor $$). I doubt any E32 exists without having had HVAC issues, and I've seen old ones recently with cheap workarounds as few owners of these cars today are willing to fork over the dough to fix them.

    The headlight relay was the only other common failure between the two cars we had -- both started dying around 80k miles or so.

    The E32 was a fantastic car in its day, and it was a lot more fun to drive with the 5spd manual.
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    GetragE32

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    Hello,

    I am a new member and had a question regarding trouble-shooting an E32 w/getrag 260/6 trans. I have never replaced a clutch myself before on my previous cars, so this would be a first. But, the vehicle has a loud whining squeaky noise during idle and I cannot engage the clutch. When the vehicle is in idle i cannot shift into any of the gears from neutral. This happened to me on the road and the only way i got home is by turning off the car and shifting it into 3rd gear and staying in that gear. Thankfully i was only miles from home. NOW I can't even force the shifter into any gear when the car is off. The clutch is original. I am thinking it may be the throw-out bearing?? Either way I would want to change the clutch/pressure plate if i'm going to do that kind of work.

    Please Help!! Thanks

    '90 E32 Getrag 260/6 Trans.
    131k Miles
    • Member

    MGarrison

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    Hi, welcome to the club & the forums!

    First off, it's best to pose questions and issues such as yours as a new discussions thread (done by clicking into the appropriate forum and then click the "Post New Thread" button at the upper top-right corner of the page). Not to worry, this will likely be shuffled into a new thread to carry on the discussion and not have it buried in an un-related thread.

    The first step is to get at an accurate diagnosis as to what's most likely going on, so you can figure what the best course or action may be (thus, obviously, your questions). Armchair diagnosis here isn't my strong suit, but you have any number of possibilities - perhaps an issue with the clutch master and/or slave cylinders, an issue with the internals of the transmission itself, or something with the various clutch components. If it was a clutch master or slave issue, that wouldn't require transmission removal, but replacing either or both of those not knowing if they'll resolve your issue is potentially a waste of time and money.

    Throw-out bearing might be a very likely candidate, but seems to me there may be a variety of other possibilities.

    I'd suggest emailing your question to the Roundel's Technical Editor, Mike Miller: techtalk@roundel.org - he's fielded so many different variety of questions over the years he may have some more specific insight as to the most likely cause for you. You could also search or pose your question at mye28.com, bimmerforums.com, bimmerfest.com, or any of the other major BMW-specific forums. Talking to the club's Tech Reps might also yield some insight, they're listed in the club representatives and contacts pages of the Roundel.

    Changing a clutch is no mean feat - (my opinion, anyway - there are probably folks out there that swap out a few clutches before breakfast, but that definitely ain't me!).

    I recommend getting yourself a Bentley manual, you can google for them - Bavauto.com is one source that likely has a price discounted from the publisher's list price. The Bentley manual is very good, but sometimes glosses over things you wish it would cover more detail. Still, invaluable for any number of maintenance projects.

    http://www.bentleypublishers.com/bm...bmw-7-series-e32-1988-1994-repair-manual.html

    Then, there's how you address the tools and procedures you'll need to accomplish - without a lift, you'll need the tallest jack stands you can get and you'll need to get the car safely up on them in their highest-extended position to have enough room under the car to both work and extract the transmission. Getting the car that high up on the jack stands is two-stage process, both a bit tricky and risky. You'll need a full-size floor jack, not one of the small or mid-size ones that won't go high enough, and you'll likely need blocks or some means to safely get the car higher than the floor jack max. height. It's tricky in part because you get the car up on jack stands up to the max height of the floor jack's capabilities, and then you have to jack it up again once on the jack stands to get it to the fullest extension of the jack stands. You'll still likely need to do any number of things from the topside of the engine compartment, so you may need something to stand on that's both safe and tall enough to allow topside access, without tipping. Exhaust system will have to come out, heat shields, driveshaft (you may find you need a new "guibo" and center support bearing - and extracting and installing the bearing off/on the driveshaft would likely require a press and correct associated tools, adapters, etc.), and the joy of freeing the difficult-to-see,-access-and-remove "mounting clip" from the topside of the transmission to free part of the shifting mechanism from the transmission. Perhaps not absolutely necessary, but a transmission jack, or transmission jack adapter to fit your floor jack, aids in the task of safely supporting the transmission so as to not damage it during course of removal - if you don't opt for one of those, you're wrestling a verrrry heavy transmission (potentially too heavy to deal with, without a transmission jack - depending on how strong you are, and even if so, you run the risk of damaging the transmission should you bend the output shaft during removal by not supporting the transmission adequately until it's completely free) underneath the car with limited space - and, even if you do use a transmission jack, you may well find as I did on my E34 that you have to disencumber the transmission from the jack once it was separated from the engine because there isn't enough height clearance to pull it out from under the car while remaining on the transmission jack. With the transmission out, you may well likely wish to replace any accessible transmission seals, yet another process. Good time to do a shift-kit though, if you're so inclined (may need more specific tools for that, though). Then, if you're lucky, the pilot bearing removal tool will actually work for you - but, if you find, as I did, the tool to be nearly worthless, you may find you need a slide-hammer kit and appropriate specialized collet-like bearing removal thingy (sorry, forgot the technical term) to actually extract said pilot bearing, which I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow from a friend and former BMW-mechanic with far more tools than I would ever hope to accumulate. Some specialized clutch tools, and so on. Bavauto.com, pelicanparts.com, autohausaz.com (among others), harbor freight, northern tool, friends with experience, mechanics you know, youtube, the Bentley manual, and internet forums... expect to need them all for insight to address the variety of tasks successfully. And, you'll still need to be a creative problem solver, and have a reasonably deep set of mechanics tools. Also without injuring yourself in the process, or, even worse, inadvertently hara-kiri-ing yourself due to being in the wrong place while attempting the wrong move with too much force, wrongly-placed jack stands, or the like (hopefully none of that likely, but it's always possible). Caution is always advised, and it's very easy to injure yourself, even badly, tackling car tasks - always use eye protection, for instance, some bit of rusty metal in your eye while on your back under car doing something can really put a kink in your day.

    Anyway - I throw all that out there in case you may not have an idea what you're facing, should you be considering tackling the job - if you do know what you're up against, then all the better. If you've never done something like pulling a transmission and replacing a clutch - it's certainly achievable, but it's not the simplest of automotive tasks. Doing it on jack stands certainly gives an appreciation of a mechanics ability to do a clutch job in a day, with a lift, the experience, and all the needed tools and parts at hand - and why it costs whatever the charge may be. It might be ambitious to expect it to go quickly, or smoothly - and, you also need someplace appropriate to tackle the job, like a smooth, level, concrete floor-garage. Aunt Josie's 30°-steep half gravel-asphalt driveway... would definitely leave something to be desired as a safe working environment. I always find anytime I'm doing something I haven't done before, figuring it out, deciphering any instructions, and so on, sucks up a lot of time - one reason mechanics can work quickly is they know what to do and exactly how to do it, they don't have to figure it out. Keep us posted on what you find out the problem is!
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    GetragE32

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    Thank you MGarrison for welcoming me. Also thank you for the quick response. I do have the Bentley Manual for the E32 and unfortunately, its section on manual transmissions is subpar. It lacks depth and detail and only covers basics. I looked at some e28/e34 manuals i found online and the bentley manual on those are much better; it covers a complete transmission rebuild pretty much. However, I could not find the specific model number for the manual trans in the e28/e34 bentley manual. It does state Getrag, but the E32 is a Getrag 260/6. Are they the same trans? I'm not sure myself.

    Thank you, I will try to delve into the car's trans problem more. Emailing the editor sounds like a really great resource. I will do that as well.

    I will keep you posted...and yes I think my number 1 obstacle right now is jacking up the E32.. boy, it seems like they designed these cars only to be serviced at a shop/dealer. I am kind of overwhelmed right now, but will take it one step at a time. I can't seem to find out a lot about this issue due to well, because the Engine/trans combo is so freakin' rare.
    • Member

    MGarrison

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    Yeah, you have to figure most 7's are automatics - it was kinda cool that you could get a manual in E32's and later, at least up to some point in time. Follow the link in the 2nd posting above to the E28 post, the former owner left a phone number, you might try calling him for the heck of it, he might be willing to share some insight, or sign up on MyE28.com and see if you can send him a message through their forums or instant message or whatever. I think if you do some googling about BMW getrag transmissions you'll hopefully find some pages detailing differences and so on, perhaps even wikipedia.

    I would think that even if a manual was unusual in 7's, that you have a very typical pairing of the M30 straight-six with a manual transmission, which was common for the entire run of the M30 engine and all it's various iterations, and any models they would have been in (E3, E9, E12, E28, E34, E24, and others) - hunt around MyE28.com for diy's, and I would tend to think most of the details for clutch replacement can't be much, if any different, from the Bentley E34 manual or anything you find for an M30 w/ manual clutch job. I agree, it is a bit frustrating that Bentley wouldn't have the same specifics as the E34 or E30 manuals.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M30
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E32
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E32#Transmissions_specifications

    If the underside is similar to other period and earlier BMW's, (Not sure what car this pic is, - http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/mwong/Jackpoints.jpg) - then the jack-stand placement points I use are to put the fronts on the inboard frame rails (blue & green marks in the pic), near the bend where it's strongest, but not so close as to risk slipping off (http://www.nmia.com/~dgnrg/frontstand.jpg), and the rears at the outboard edges of the rear subframe (the blue marks on the subframe in the pic).

    Then, move it up in stages to the highest, locked, jack-stand extension. Whether you jack it up from the sides or the front cross-member and the diff with your floor jack, getting it high can be tricky - if you go too high at a time after first getting it positioned on 4 jack stands, you risk getting a jack stand starting to tip/tilt, and worse case/most dangerous scenario is having the car fall off the jack stands (don't remove the wheels until you're done). Keep yourself clear as well as the area around the car while jacking, minimize any time you're placing any body parts under the car (ie get your jack stands in place as quickly as possible and don't risk yourself under the car when the car is only supported by a hydraulic jack), and doing it in stages should minimize the risk as you go higher. Jacking from the side using the sill factory-position jacking points with a floor jack, with a regular floor jack you can squish/bend/crush the underside lip/sill - I have some very thick rubber as a jack pad, but you need some kind of cushion to jack the car on those points - jacking on the crossmember and diff, that is obviously less of a problem. I've jacked up on the inboard frame rails, but you have to have the floor jack placed far enough back so the jack stands can be placed under the strongest part of the frame rails - too far back with the floor jack, and you might end up bending up the floor sheet metal a bit. I've heard of many opting for hockey pucks for jack pads, but a gal at a track event told me how her hockey puck unexpectedly fractured, dropping the car onto the jack itself, and also breaking her toe when the car dropped because her foot was unfortunately placed and it wasn't jacked up very high - suit yourself, but no hockey pucks for me. If your floor jack doesn't go as high as the jack stands, you may need a wood block or some suitable extension, but it's better to use a single piece of wood (or single piece of whatever!) if you have to do that at all (it's better to have a jack that would cover the height extension you need, but jacks that go that high are big, and expensive) - you don't want to be jacking the car on a stack of wood pieces, too much risk of tipping. So some pieces of 4x4, 6x6, or 8x8 might be handy to have. Make sure your jack stands are fully on the floor, and not under any side-force from the car position shifting as you've gotten it into position.

    There will be a lot of shuffling around under the car, a creeper is handy, although sometimes you'll need the extra clearance and then it's handy to have a mat.

    http://pitstopusa.com/c-131838-pit-equipment-track-mats-pit-mats.html
    http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=creeper
    http://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-jack-stand-set-38847.html
    I did my clutch job w/ jack stands like the above - I think the job would be a bit of a struggle with much less than a couple feet clearance under the car -

    Double locking is a nice-feature - these go a few inches higher, which also brings the challenge of going just that much higher.
    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200330725_200330725

    Any variety of places to source floor jacks - perusing the Northern Tool site, the high lift jacks cost the better portion of what you'd pay a shop to do a clutch job!

    http://www.harborfreight.com/low-profile high-lift-floor-jack-with-rapid-pump-2-ton-heavy-duty-68050.html
    http://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-capacity-transmission-jack-39178.html (if I'd had this, I might have been able to get the trans out from under the car; the transmission-jack adapted to fit a standard floor jack didn't go low enough)

    a few links -
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1547526
    http://www.nmia.com/~dgnrg/page_7.htm
    http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/1715344-94-740i-E32-Rear-jack-point-and-jackstand-places
    http://www.bmw7resource.co.uk/forum/index.php
    http://www.e38.org/e32/

    And - if you have a good indy BMW shop you can trust (see http://www.bimrs.org/2008MapPage.html), perhaps it's worth getting a quote on a clutch job, and you'll have an idea if it's worth tackling yourself - there's always the satisfaction of doing it yourself, however - as long as ya don't kill yourself in the process! ;)

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