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Ethanol

Discussion in 'E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006-2011)' started by bimmerque, Mar 10, 2009.

    • Member

    tiFreak

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    I don't mind prices going up, it sucked when I had to pay almost $6 a gallon for premium but I got by, I don't like the idea of my fuel pump and injectors getting gummed up with corn

    ethanol doesn't even make that big a difference, we have to use petroleum products to make it and transport it, it's all so the government can put on their little show and pretend they're making such a big difference in the enviroment. I'm really very unbiased in politics, I don't pay attention to what they're doing at 20 I'm not registered to vote, but this is one thing I'm really against

    RBinDC guest

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    Your comment regarding Big Ag is spot on! I'm an energy consultant working in Washington DC. Our ethanol program is a national disgrace. The government subsidizes ethanol production through a tax credit to refiners that blend the ethanol with gasoline. The taxpayers pick up the bill to the tune of approximately $5 billion per year to replace about 2 percent of gasoline consumption. That works out to about $2.00 per gallon ON TOP OF THE COST OF THE GASOLINE!

    And guess what. The ethanol program saves almost NO ENERGY because it takes almost as much energy to produce a gallon of ethanol as the energy the gallon contains! It also doesn't save greenhouse gasses because much of the energy is produced from polluting coal-fired power plants and the upward pressure it puts on food prices is incenting the clearing of the Brazilian rain forest, which absorbs CO2.

    So why are we shooting ourselves in the foot? Because congressmen from the Midwes want the farm vote. As the saying goes in DC, the US has the best congress that money can buy!
    • Member

    CRKrieger

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    OK, now you need to stop. As a former chemist who hasn't forgotten everything I ever knew, I can assure you that this is sheer ignorance. Ethanol doesn't 'gum' up anything. It's a heck of a lot cleaner than gasoline both as a liquid fuel and as a burned fuel. That it isn't actually more economical than petroleum fuels is another matter entirely, as the previous poster pointed out.
    Time to wake up, kid. If you don't at least participate, you don't have any right to complain.
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    floydarogers

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    That's a really stupid statement. Ethanol, in limited quantities, actually improves the running of gasoline engines. It increases O2 content (limiting pollutants), increases octane (reducing knock and potentially increasing engine efficiency).

    Crappy transportation of ethanol in water-polluted tanks/pipelines is the problem. The water sweeps up dirt, which is dissolved by the ethanol, which then ends up in the fuel filter in your car. You do *CHANGE* the fuel filter, don't you? Because if the dirt gets past it it will plug your injectors.
    • Member

    granthr

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    Thank you! :)

    I do, but BMW doesn't seem to think it is necessary any more. :(


    Oh, Tifreak, please vote, but I do understand why people might not. Lack of faith in the governing body is a big one. The system is far from perfect, but it is better than most alternatives. :)
    • Member

    CRKrieger

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    Physical Chemistry lesson

    Um; I deliberately chose 'ignorant' instead of 'stupid' because ignorance can be cured. Stupidity can't. Take your own ignorant statement above. I don't know what kind of "dirt" you're talking about, but any time you combine water, ethanol, and the petroleum mixture we know as 'gasoline', there isn't much that will dissolve in any one of them that won't dissolve in the combination of them. I know of nothing that essentially precipitates out ("ends up in the fuel filter") as you propose.

    In terms of solvents, water is a great one for many solids like salt and sugar that won't dissolve in organic solvents like gasoline; and vice versa. But the two solvents effectively don't mix. Ethanol (and other light alcohols) fits nicely in between. It easily mixes with both water and with gasoline. The advantage to this is that small quantities of water and the solids that will dissolve in it will mix with the alcohol and the alcohol, in turn, will mix with the gasoline, taking the water with it (to a point). This mixture will carry anything that will dissolve in any of them through the engine. What you find in the fuel filter is stuff like actual dirt and rust that won't dissolve in any of the three liquids.

    JAMAICAN TWIN TURBO guest

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    I love you guys. This is great reading.
    • Member

    steven s

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    I wouldn't use anything but Top Tier gas if I had a new car.
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers: (From your link):

    76 Petro-Canada
    Aloha Petroleum Phillips 66
    Chevron QuikTrip
    Chevron Canada Rebel Oil
    Conoco Road Ranger
    CountryMark Severson Oil
    Entec Stations Shell
    Esso Shell Canada
    Exxon Sunoco Canada
    Kwik Trip / Kwik Star Texaco
    MFA Oil Co. The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
    Mileage Stations Tri-Par Oil Co.
    Mobil Turkey Hill Minit Markets
    U.S. Oil

    Funny... In my 2010 328i Owner's manual, BMW recommends BP fuels.

    That brand seems to NOT be on the list above.
    • Member

    granthr

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    This has been a great thread so far. :cool:

    I have noticed that there are now more fuel companies on the top tier list! This is great news, especially since Exxon/Mobil are now on the list. Many more to choose from. I am still a very much a die hard Shell fan though. Got to love the Dutch! :D
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    floydarogers

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    I agree that my use of the word "stupid" was stupid. My use of "dissolve" was incorrect, and led to your puzzlement; "suspended" would have been a better choice.
    • Member

    floydarogers

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    I don't use Top Tier gas!:eek:


    (in my 2010 335d.):D
    • Member

    tiFreak

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    ethanol can separate from the gas when it sits long enough, like when storing a car for a long period of time, which I do with all of my cars, that leaves a layer of ethanol in the tank, call me ignorant but I doubt that layer is going to flow through the engine very smoothly :rolleyes: the fuel stabilizer for ethanol gas is more expensive than the fuel stabilizer for regular gas

    thanks for the reminder, I wasn't aware my car required regular maintenance ;)
    • Member

    CRKrieger

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    OK; you're ignorant; but here's a chance for education. Read this. The bottom line here is, unless you're leaving a half tank of fuel sitting open for a couple of years without being used, you should see no problems. The only sources I found that said otherwise were selling consulting services or ethanol testers, and apparently aren't reputable enough to reveal the source of many of their 'facts' or even their actual identities - like "The Fuel Doctor".
    I think we're full circle now. If you need it, then plan on paying for it in the future.
    1 people like this.

    M3Driver guest

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    We can't get away from the damned stuff here in the Southeast. However we are blessed to have Shell and Chevron 93 octane which I used in the M3 and our X3 so far with no issues that I can discern.

    You guys in the Northeast used to have Sunoco stations with some pretty high-octane (96?) a few years ago. Those even exist anymore?

    I have been looking for a station that sells unleaded racing fuel. Union 76 used to do that but they are all gone here.

    Cheers.

    Edit: @C.R. Krieger - Good article. Thanks for posting. I'm adding it to my document stash.
    • Member

    granthr

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    Sunoco 94 is gone! :( Lost it a about 2 or 3 years ago. I was a big fan. I am also looking for race fuel in my town, but can't seem to find any. My local Sunoco was considering putting in 108, but he decided to put diesel in his extra tank instead.

    BassettBMW guest

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    Did BMW NA issue an alert?
    • Member

    CRKrieger

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    No. Hysterical ignoramus who apparently pumped E85 in there and couldn't get BMW to pay for his stupidity.
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

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    I have to admit... I also have a bit of an acerbic sense of humor. I DO enjoy reading your responses...
    • Member

    CRKrieger

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    Danke sehr. Would you believe that no one has ever suggested that I'm acerbic? The usual word is 'Smartass©'. :D

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