Hello there and welcome to the BMW Car Club of America.

If you are a BMW CCA member, please log in and introduce yourself in our Member Introductions section.

Blinder Laser System

Discussion in 'E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006-2011)' started by mkgoodman, Jun 23, 2010.

    • Member

    mkgoodman

    Post Count: 7
    Likes Received:0
    Has anyone installed the Blinder System in their car and how effective is it? The videos seem good, but I prefer real experience. I have an E93 and would like to have something other than a notice from a V1 that I am going to get a ticket. I
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    The Blinder system works -- it emits a beam that effectively 'blinds' the police laser gun. The trick is to balance your jamming, your alerts (from your V1 or other radar/laser detector), and your speed.

    Here's my experience -- in two scenarios.
    Scenario # 1

    Going 'too fast' in the # 3 lane of a deserted highway...laser detector alerts, jammer activates for 2 seconds (user setting) while I reign in speed....

    Officer lights me up. I pull over...
    PO:Sir do you know what speed I have you at ?
    Me:No officer.
    PO:Sir, I have you at dash dash dash on my laser, but I visually estimate your speed at 80MPH. License and reg....
    Me: Sorry officer, I don't think I was going that fast.
    PO: Don't be cute...I know you have something interfering with my laser gun, and this is a serious matter. But, since I don't have you on laser, I am going to let you off with a warning.


    Scenario #2
    Going about 65 on a rural state highway in light traffic, one lane each way. Speed limit is 50. Laser detector alerts. Jammer activates for one second burst (user setting). Take foot off accelerator pedal.
    End of scenario.


    Theme: If you are going to be driving like a hooligan, you will still be pulled over and 'hassled.' If you are going to be driving a lot of commuter miles at a 'responsible' clip over the speed limit, you will have an extra margin of safety (ie, time to slow down) even when confronted by police laser. 'Instant on' or 'POP' radar is still a nuisance, as there is no legal way to jam that signal.

    However, many police departments are exclusively using laser in my area.

    Hope this helped.
    • Member

    mkgoodman

    Post Count: 7
    Likes Received:0
    Blinder System

    Thanks for the reply. Do you have both front and rear units (M47) and where did you have them installed. I only wish to reduce the possibility of tickets and keep my insurance premiums low. Any details of where you instaled the units woiuld be helpful.

    BMWtoyz guest

    Post Count: 181
    Likes Received:0
    "if you are going to be driving like a hooligan, you will still be pulled over and 'hassled.' - As a retired police officer and CCA member I find this statement offensive, you are driving like a "hooligan" and if you get stopped the police are hassling you? Really or in case you are driving like a "hooligan" maybe the officer is doing his job?
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    That's why I used quotes around the word 'hassled' - perhaps you should re-read with a more neutral eye, or even grow a thicker skin?

    A police pullover (especially for mild speeding) always yields a variety of feelings - However, I would venture to state that the majority of people who are interested in jamming your LEO laser would consider any pullover a form of 'hassle' - that said, the BMW CCA is (by and large) not one and the same with the fast and furious crowd - you know, the ones who fail to yield and drag race down Santa Monica?

    We'll probably not be street-racing, we'll pull over, and be respectful, and pay our fines to your masters, and we probably won't even quibble with you when you lecture us about safety before you roar off down the highway without your lights on, forcing motorists to the side of the road on the way to Dunkin'. (If you don't do this, you must be among the 1/100% of a percent of LEOs who do not drive like a 'hooligan.')

    And to be honest, you should expect that a percentage of automobile enthusiasts will consider you and your badge-toting and handgun-waving brethren to be 'the enemy' -- at least on some level, especially as it pertains to the enforcement of V&T code. This feeling is probably exacerbated by the growing militarism of police in general.

    And if you think those statements were offensive you should hear what I really think - but this is about cars, or more specifically, laser jammers. Not politics or adjectives.

    Now, since we have strayed so far from the original topic, I will reiterate:

    If you are driving like a hooligan, you will be in the sights of law enforcement. Remember in the event of a pullover, put your hands on the rooftop and do not reach suddenly for your wallet, or you may be shot. Respect the police officer at all times, and no matter how snarky or rude the officer becomes, never, ever, admit guilt.

    Laser jammers are an asset if you expect to be travelling at a clip that is somewhere in the ballpark of the arbitrary speed limits imposed by our state governments. They offer an added buffer for slowing down...if you are slowing down a little, and then the jammer goes passive again, the officer's gun will only see you at say, 8 over instead of your original 15...and not pull you over...but, if you are driving at 100MPH, in a 50 MPH zone, and you jam on your brakes when the detector alerts and you jam the officer's gun nonstop, you are going to get pulled over and 'hassled' ie, bothered, browbeaten, worried, hounded, stressed et cetera.

    I only have had a front mounted system -- the Blinder 27 I believe. The hardest part of mounting it was to determine the placement and orientation of the heads. I opted for them to be mounted in the grille on the lower front fascia of my E92 328i.

    You might find this thread helpful:
    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114266&highlight=laser jammer&page=4
    • Member

    az3579

    Post Count: 3,270
    Likes Received:3
    While I do agree with 99% of what you said, I also think this is a bit out of line. Most of us don't like LEO's when we get pulled over, but we really do take them for granted, and should still respect what they do even when not talking to one.
    It's not the police I disagree with, it's the laws. You can never blame the police for doing what they do; they do it because it's their job and it's what the law dictates, whether they agree with the laws or not.


    Back to jammers:

    So how exactly do these work: do they jam constantly or they only jam for a short burst of time?
    1 people like this.
    • Member

    mkgoodman

    Post Count: 7
    Likes Received:0
    Blinder System

    Thanks for the link. I am sorry this turned into something other than Laser Jammers. We all have our dislikes and have different tolerance levels. All I wanted was to find out the best Jammer and best location on an E93.
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    Back to laser jammers then...Demo link for Laser Interceptor system:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQfPyoaSkfQ&feature=player_embedded

    I like that demo because it shows the limitations of both jammers and the laser used to measure speed. It also shows that eventually, your countermeasure is likely to be defeated when in close proximity to the laser source...

    Laser jammers typically have a user defined setting for the length of your jamming interval...therefore it is up to each consumer to determine how long they want to jam --
    the longer your jam, the more obvious it becomes that you are using electronic countermeasures to thwart LEO laser -- especially if you are driving 'fast.'

    The optimum placement of the heads is on either side of your license plate, as close to the headlights as possible. This puts a head as close as possible to the likely/best laser targets on the front of your vehicle (shiny bits). The trick is finding a way to mount them that doesn't look like a hack job and also allows you to run your wires. Installing the system without any exterior evidence is almost impossible -- the heads need to have some profile in order to be effective.

    And, if you are interested, here is another link with a DIY for installing a jamming system on an E90.
    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157728&highlight=laser jammer
    • Member

    Zahnarzt

    Post Count: 61
    Likes Received:1
    Get a V1 and use your head.

    I have to put in my $.02 here. Jamming systems work well in a lab (i.e. very controlled) environment, but outside an ideal desert highway, I wouldn't count on them to do the job. Any signal, be it electromagnetic/radio, light, IR, whatever is just that--a signal. Putting an antenna for transmitting and/or receiving low to the ground isn't a good idea unless you have a pretty polarized and otherwise elaborate aiming mechanism. Secondly, you need straight up power in the signal you'd transmit to the point where something electronic in your car would be unintentionally affected.

    Your best bet is to invest in a quality detector and be smart about your driving. I'm certainly no angel, and my V1 has saved my rear and paid for itself many times over, but picking when and where with some thought will provide you with ample opportunity and keep your liability insurance premium from taking off. Ask me how I know about this.

    :D Rick
    1 people like this.
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    If you doubt the jamming ability of these sorts of systems, watch the demo link for the Laser Interceptor I posted previosuly.

    or this one..
    http://www.streetfire.net/video/police-laser-jammer-in-c5-corvette-vs-police-speed_108938.htm


    or this one...it is a real world use video, and it shows the power of an effective detector and jamming system combined with a nearly sane driver.
    http://www.viddler.com/explore/epicfotoguy/videos/1/


    Most of the high end jammers have the power to 'jam' police lidar until you are within a few feet of the police laser --- if you ever have an officer or trooper tell you that he got you at dash dash dash, you will become a major fan of these systems!

    ...and also, to reiterate -- these systems are not a license to drive recklessly...but if you are a commuter who is regularly confronted by the donut squad....:p
    • Member

    Zeichen311

    Post Count: 548
    Likes Received:3
    ...you should probably practice being less obtrusive. ;)
    • Member

    Brian A

    Post Count: 657
    Likes Received:7
    ... I dunnooo.

    I watched a Myth Busters episode where they tried to jam Police radar and laser and couldn't have any impact. They even tried mounting the magnatron from a microwave oven on the front of their car and blastie laser emitters. No effect.

    Its a cool show, so they must be right.
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    Probably right - but maybe it's not obtrusiveness per se ( I try to avoid being an impediment). Though I have been accused of some isntances of obtusiveness...

    I think it's more the simple reality that if you are driving a heavily modified or otherwise distinct car, you are going to get all kinds of attention - both good and bad... regardless of your driving habits...this is what leads to my disdain for the lack of uniformity in the enforcement of the traffic code.

    Disclaimer: if you drive like a moron, you deserve to be stopped...I don't suggest buying a laser jammer as a means to drive recklessly with impugnity..

    I think that I would say that it's not obtrusiveness that garners encounters with LEOs for many of us....in my experience anyway. Rather, it is the 'profile' of your vehicle. Since the garish spoilers of my younger days have receded from my life, along with my hairline, I have noticed a diminishing interest from the police. Maybe this is a sign of my growing feebleness.

    When you have multiple colors in your paint job, and a loudly aggressive exhaust/engine note, and you maybe even tinted windows and the center of your healdights is only 21" from the ground, people will notice. If you are further violating some sort of traffic code, when you are as a matter of course noticed by police, you will be pulled over.



    You're right, that show is annoyingly captivating...Cool. But I suggest not taking any one source too seriously. I did my research and I have been pretty happy since I began employing countermeasures.

    sengle guest

    Post Count: 1
    Likes Received:1
    I am going to throw my two cents in.....You might want to check your local laws about jamming devices. In some jurisdictions it is a criminal offense to possess or use a jammer. I say criminal offense as in "you get a trip to the local greybar hotel". I am an active LEO, and certified in the the operation of speed measuring devices. Even using a jammer, many officers are trained to accurately (within 2 mph) determine vehicle speed by visual means. So if a cop "sees" you going over the limit, but the radar/lidar does not confirm, the officer can still stop you. And yes, the officer is going to look for any jammer, and if found..well you know the rest. Not trying to fuel any fire, just giving you the benefit of my knowledge and training.
    Be safe.
    1 people like this.
    • Member

    az3579

    Post Count: 3,270
    Likes Received:3
    Just out of curiosity, how is this possible? I personally think that someone can not accurately tell how fast someone is going just by using their eyes, at least not to within 2 mph (maybe 10). Is there a particular technique/method used to determine speed based on visual cues? I'd like to learn about this; this whole "can you believe what the officer thinks your speed was" thing intrigues me...
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    It is not possible to accurately determine speed with your eyes -- but, it is possible to make an educated estimate.

    Using stationary objects and known distances, a trained set of eyes can visually estimate speed. For instance, state police pilots doing speed enforcement are trained to use the painted road markings and even signage to visually estimate speed. Police can also use 'pacing' techniques to try and accurately determine your speed. Want to know how fast that car in front of you is going? Try to maintain a distance behind it -- then look at your own speedo...pretty close...

    However, that estimate is not as accurate (nor as easily doucmented) as the measurement of lidar or radar, and is therefore less of an automatic speeding ticket - by this I mean you might be able to talk your way out of it on the roadside, or at a later date with a local prosecutor.

    This is why law enforcement tends to pounce from ambush, having already obtained an accurate and recorded measurement of your speed. That is why every second counts in creating a buffer between the moment you are observed and the moment a measurment device is able to ascertain your speed. This gives you a chance to check your speed and tap the brakes -- maybe you still get pulled. So what -- i'd prefer a ticket for 'unreasonable speed' or '80+' to one for '103.' (Hypothetical folks - calmate!)

    As for the legality (or illegality) of jamming devices, you will have to check your local ordinances. But, I can tell you this -- using a laser jammer on a military base is illegal -- it is also illegal to jam radar across this whole great land. I am also not telling anyone that a laser jammer is an automatic get out of jail free card - but it is not an automatic go-to-jail card either. Here is a link to current laws: http://www.radarbusters.com/legalissuesarticle.cfm

    I think that this thread is a useful means for the exchange of ideas and experiences. I am a hardliner against the status quo of speed enforcement -- so I am here to champion the usefulness of laser jammers. But, I also respect law enforcement, so I am not telling anyone that reckless speeding is 'ok' or that disregard for V&T laws is the essence of American values.



    I am willing to bet you are not going to get arrested for driving a passenger vehicle with these devices - though they may well be confiscated, and you will be issued a citation. That is a risk I will take - but don't take my word, judge for yourself.

    If you are arrested, my advice: hire an attorney. If you were going fast enough, you'll need one anyway. But, that would definitely, umm, suck.


    As long as the police are hiding and aiming beams of energy at my car to attempt to levy a fine against me and fill the coffers of my state, I will employ any and all effective countermeasure to defeat them -- including simply observing traffic laws in the wide majority of driving situations.

    Happy motoring guys --
    • Member

    bcweir

    Post Count: 1,263
    Likes Received:5
    Here's an even better idea than laser jammers

    1) Buy a good V1, and invest the money otherwise spent into the laser jamming gimmick into a high performance driving course instead.

    2) Save the speed exhibitions for the racetrack instead of public roads and highways. There have been numerous stories on the internet very recently about innocent people getting maimed and killed by drivers operating their vehicles at speeds far beyond their driving skill. There is no constitutionally protected right to violate posted speed limits or traffic laws.

    3) Let's give other motorists one less reason to key our cars in parking lots.

    Nuf said. Just my $20.02.
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    I also highly recommend the top tier of Beltronics products...RX65, STI Driver, et cetera...

    I don't really think there is 'reason' involved in keying cars -- but I agree that our individual conduct may earn a reputation for all of our fellow BMW drivers. We all need to keep that in mind.

    BMWtoyz guest

    Post Count: 181
    Likes Received:0
    During my career I was able to estimate speed to within +- 2 mph (which is what I assume you meant).Our state required a visual estimate before actually "confirming" with radar or LIDAR. I have written citations and won them in court using a visual estimate alone.
    • Member

    LOPHAT2

    Post Count: 23
    Likes Received:0
    Feedback on Contesting a Citation:

    Recently, last Sunday, enroute to Northern VA I was cited, I-20 East, Camden SC, for speeding 91 mph in a 70 mph zone. The officer did not cite me for wreckless driving. I took his word, did not ask to see the radar or evidence of speeding, and did not admit to his accusation/guilt. The conversation was short and to the point. I didn't have a chance to talk my way out of this one or request a break, request issuing the citation at a lower speed, in order to avoid wreckless driving and 3 points on my driving record. By the way, I was enroute to Northern VA and I have a VA drivers license.

    I have the STI Driver radar and I had it laying in my passenger seat. The officer apparently had his radar turned down low and when I detected him it was too late.

    Questions:

    1. What are the chances of me having the ticket if I show up to court to contest it and the officer does the same? My contention is that I don't feel I was driving 91 mph, more like 81 mph

    2. Am I wasting my time to show up in court?

    3. Since I was exceeding the speed limit > 15 mph, is that considered "wreckless driving" even though it's not written on the ticket?

    4. Any feedback on the court process for contesting a speeding citation or defense without lying?

Share This Page