Discussion in 'E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006-2011)' started by Point2mach, Apr 21, 2009.
I wonder what the incidence of hpfp failures is,(in terms of percentage of all x35i's on the road)?
Back in early 2008 when NHTSA first became aware of the HPFP failures on x35i models from owner filed safety complaints, BMW "estimated that less than 5% of owners would experience this issue". Things have continuously deteriorated since the optimistic "less than 5%" estimate by BMW back in 2008. See nhtsa.gov Safety Defect Complaints for details.
Unfortunately we do not know if BMW meant 5% of all BMW vehicles ever produced or what? Some online surveys show > 34% failure rate and > 20% re-failure rate with the various new models of HPFPs. Will it take litigation or a senseless death to get this issue properly resolved?
This is becoming the most important question. Will BMW address a systemic failure or leave us to twist in the wind? Will it take a traffic fatality with resulting litigation to prompt a comprehensive response? Is a software update an appropriate 'remedy' when there is a suspect mechanical part or the software update causes a vehicle to stop functioning in the near future?
That all said, mechanical things are, well, mechanical. There is a possibility that any machine will break. On a system as complex as a modern BMW (featuring gobs of technology), that possibility of down time is certainly a reality - and BMW has addressed our concerns with Ultimate Service, and a dealer network that usually gives out loaner cars for the duration of your service downtime, during the first few years of ownership. This mitigates the majority of owners' vehicle failures. I can be objective and level headed.
But now, a particular component has been proven unreliable (HPFP). This single part (in all its iterations) has caused failures across the model range and through the years of production. This HPFP failure has left me stranded in the middle of an intersection, and in the middle of 4 lane highway with traffic whizzing by at 65 MPH -- in front of the dealer and immediately after the software udpate. This is BMW's Ultimate Service?
In 12 years of BMW driving experience, I have never had a vehicle that almost took my life through component failure. Previously, I touted BMWs safety and realiability. Now, to do so would sound fan-boi-ish. I have serious reservations about driving/owning my car long term, and I hesitate to purchase any car from a manufacturer that allows a problem like this to fester, especially as it has the potential to cause accidents and bodily harm. I shudder to imagine my mother having her HPFP die on the highway. That must be why she drives a benz.
It is my sincere hope that BMW does something to address our concerns, but I am not holding my breath. They already got our money. But, they might not get much more of mine.
My final straw was the dealer's sales manager telling me has never heard of a HPFP failure on a 335i. I asked him to google HPFP and see what happens. I walked out questioning my allegiance to the roundel.
I hope someone at BMW gmbh knows how to work google -
135i HPFP dying video:
Copy of pending litigation:
Facebook page for the failed BMW HPFP
Oh well, time to lift some weights and get this bad taste out of my mouth. Thanks for letting me vent guys.
I think BMW needs to narrow the problem down to one of two issues
If it's a quality problem, switch suppliers, or at least switch to a different model pump.
On the other hand, if the engine is simply demanding more fuel than these pumps can deliver, it goes right back to the solution of switching to a different model pump. Or if you have to, go to a dual pump design, which is what they did with the V12 E31's and E32's. I like that idea best, especially if you can have each pump act as a failsafe for the other (in the event of a pump failure, you'd have reduced performance, but still a means of getting it home or to the shop).
At the risk of oversimplifying the issue, it's just a fuel pump problem right? Why not even swap in the pump(s) from a 5-series, 6-series, 7-series, or an X5 or X6?
I actually inquired about swapping to a different model pump -- I was told that there is nothing BMW offers that fits. I asked about the aftermarket and they said that would sacrifice my warranty coverage.
I used to have a 325i with a heavy duty sound system. The headlights began to dim when the system was turned up for some Warren Zevon. I installed a bigger alternator, I believe from a 540i, without any problems. The problem was cured, and the part lasted for the life of the car. I was hoping there would be a solution this simple for my HPFP problems, but that seems to be a fantasy.
There are rumors that aftermarket companies (such as Riss Racing and Ireland engineering) are working on a more powerful fuel system for n54 motors, but they are pipe dreams at this point.
If you research the N54 HPFP failure issue you'll see that BMW has changed HPFP suppliers four times now. It's not likely a QC issue but more a system issue that BMW is unable to identify. Some BMW owners have had (7) HPFPs replaced on one vehicle. Other BMW owners have had multiple x35i models that the HPFP has been replaced on multiple times.
You can't just "swap a HPFP from another engine" as the HPFP is designed specifically for the N54/55 engine. HPFP pump design, volume and pressure are specific to a given engine. A few aftermarket companies tried to improve the OE BMW HPFP which operates at up to 2900 PSI pressure and they gave up without success.
Well in that case, let's hope BMW is not going to be hasty at killing off NA engines
Knock wood, I haven't seen this issue with BMW's twin turbo V8's or even with their twin-turbo V12, or even with the NA V8 in the E9x M3.
Still, in light of this issue, might not be a bad idea to keep some NA engines in the lineup. The rush to put turbos on every engine in BMW's lineup may not be the most prudent thing to do, especially in light of the fact that the next M3 is slated to return to six cylinder power, albeit with twin turbos. Ditto the planned twin turbo V8's in the next M5 and M6 to replace the very recently deceased S85 V10.
Interestingly enough, I just read an article about Formula One's transition to turbo four cylinder cars in 2013. It seems that BMW is a little bit ahead of the curve in some respects, and I don't mind being a guinea pig....to some extent....for technology that reduces overall fuel consumption.
However, it is BMW's bizarre handling of this issue that makes me wonder about my future with the marque.
A friend of mine has a 2011 335i. He picked it up from his dealer with long cranks. The salesman actually sat with him in the car on delivery day and told him that the HPFP might need to be replaced soon. This guy asked if he should just not take delivery - they did the software update before he left the lot. He was like . But, he loves the thing, just like the rest of us....what is a good consumer to do? Buy an M3? Go to the darkside of VAG?
Weird? I think so.
BMW is dropping the ball, and it helps me to complain about it to people who have some idea what I am talking about. thanks again.
The issue has nothing to do with turbos. It's a direct injection fuel system issue.
Second Lawsuit Filed Against BMW Over Sudden Engine Power Failures
From the article...linked below
BMW (BAMXY) likes to tout itself as the maker of the ultimate driving machine. The word "ultimate" comes from the Latin word for last, and thanks to a faulty engine design, you could spend your last moments in a BMW that suddenly loses power on the freeway. Naturally, this little problem has not escaped the attention of the legal industry. This week, a California firm filed a class action lawsuit against BMW -- the second one of which I'm aware.
On Oct. 5, Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff, LLP, announced that it had recently filed a class action lawsuit "on behalf of thousands of individuals who own various BMW vehicles released between the years of 2007-2010." I wrote about this problem on DailyFinance in July -- BMW's new N54 twin turbo engine sports a faulty high-powered fuel pump that can suddenly fail. And when the pump fails, the engine goes into what's known as "limp mode."
See full article from DailyFinance: http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/a...-class-action/19665321/?icid=sphere_copyright
BMW is getting sued over this issue, on Bimmerfest this morning.
I had the fuel pump replaced 4 times and have a feeling I will replace it again and again and pay for it when the extended warranty expires. QUOTE=funk74;40072]Well it is definately a frustrating situation. I just picked up my car and it seems to be running fine. I have been having the same problem as described here.
It started with just long cranking times in the morning or after a long day at work, then the engine malfunction light came on. I usually just turned the car off and restarted it and the problem would not persist.
This last time the problem occurred on the morning of the day I was taking the car in to have this checked out again so I did not restart it, because I wanted them to see the malfunction light. Boy, was the performance of the car really diminished! I had no power when I tried to accelerate on the freeway. It was really anemic.
I love to drive this car when it is working fine, but having this problem is troubling to me. Especailly have to have the pump replaced a second time. and have a low pressure sensor replaced on another occasion.
I agree, you do not expect so many people to have this problem on a car that you pay so much money for. But I am glad that it is not just my car having the issue.
Hopefully BMW can sort through this, but I am definitely contemplating not keeping this car past it's warranty period or opting to get an extended warranty.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, since this posting, I had another HPFP, coil pack and a 7th injector go bad. So I had no choice but to trade it in and now drive a 2011 Audi S4. When BMW's reliability gets better, I may come back
I'm reading on several forums where even the latest 446 HPFPs are failing so I guess BMW still doesn't have this issue figured out.
Couldn't you have gotten BMW to buy back the car under the lemon law? You probably took a huge hit on the trade-in value.
No I had 52,000 miles on it
What does the mileage have to do with the lemon law in your state?
Also, did you consider the A5 or S5 coupe? Why an S4?
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