Hello there and welcome to the BMW Car Club of America.

If you are a BMW CCA member, please log in and introduce yourself in our Member Introductions section.

335i high pressure fuel pump

Discussion in 'E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006-2011)' started by Point2mach, Apr 21, 2009.

    • Member

    Pyewacket1

    Post Count: 274
    Likes Received:5
    I don't have a dog in this hunt, so I should probably not comment.

    But, I'm going to make a couple of comments anyway.

    First, I agree that one spending $50K+ for a ride most likely expects it to be at least as reliable as a $30K ride, if not moreso... I certainly would.

    Second, I can't help but wonder if this is a really widespread problem, or one that just has been hyped up a lot by those its happened to personally. I guess, if I had that information, I could then decide whether or not to get a 335 or the used M3.

    I see quite a few 335's out and about, and I have some difficulty thinking that a sizeable number of them have (or expect to have) this problem.
    • Member

    Zeichen311

    Post Count: 548
    Likes Received:3
    This. It's important to remember the failure rate is nowhere near 100%. The vast majority of N54s never experience the problem; the incidence rate is somewhere in the 2-4% range. However, a significant fraction of those that do fail seem to have multiple episodes, which understandably adds to the frustration and outcry from the affected owners.

    I'd be careful about convincing yourself to cancel the 335is on this basis. You're dealing in unknowns either way: The chance a brand-new car will be among the minority afflicted by a recurring problem vs. the chance a used car will have nasty skeletons hiding in its trunk. CPO horror stories abound--and are as good a reason to avoid CPO cars as HPFP failures are to avoid N54s.

    ForcedInduction guest

    Post Count: 358
    Likes Received:4
    PLEASE show me the official BMW statistics of 2 - 4% failure rate on the N54/55 HPFPs.

    People pull numbers out of a hat or body orifice... to try and validate their belief. :(


    The executive overview is question #14...

    http://www.surveymethods.com/previe...8CFFFE88697DFD49DA2C5C48682C9CFC4CF869690C380
    • Member

    az3579

    Post Count: 3,270
    Likes Received:3
    Yes, please show actual data. The problem seems to be blown up (possibly out of proportion), and is the main reason I decided not to save up some pennies and finance a used 335i. I thought that if so many people were experiencing the problem, I'm not going to bother finding out once the warranty is up, not to mention the cost of replacing the turbos when the time comes.
    • Member

    Zeichen311

    Post Count: 548
    Likes Received:3
    I don't have published evidence any more than you do. What I do have is a good relationship with my dealer and several conversations on this subject as an interested bystander: I don't own one and wasn't shopping for one. Thus, no one saw the need to mollify me with feel-good numbers. Among our many chatting-about-BMW-and-other-car-stuff bull sessions, I asked for, and got, their best estimates on how often they see legitimate HPFP failures. That's what I've shared and also note I stated it's approximate, in part because I don't recall the exact conversation. If my memory is off by a factor of five--which it is not--it's still a minority figure.

    You are among those who consider this a major problem and are acting accordingly. That is your right. However, opposing positions are not necessarily extracted from a hat, orifice or the collected dubious wisdom of the Internet.

    Edit: As for the survey, it's interesting but you have to remember it is statistically invalid in the rigorous sense. The sample is too small and non-random--self-selected, in fact--to support or refute the conclusion that the observed failure rate (among the survey respondents) is representative of the entire population. Simply put: That's nice, but it doesn't support my position any more than yours.

    ForcedInduction guest

    Post Count: 358
    Likes Received:4
    NotTheStig-

    Actually the survey and others like it are far more useful and likely closer to BMW real world data than an unsubstantiated claim of 2 - 4 % failure rate based on some third party conversation with some dealership employee who has virtually no firsthand information what so ever on the actual BMW HPFP failure statistics.

    IMO it is misleading to make the post you made which may be totally pie-in-the-sky when one considers the numerous sources that indicate that N54/55 HPFP failures are wide spread and unresolved even after multiple HPFP replacements on the same vehicle. The N54/55 HPFP failure issue has existed for five model years and counting including the 2011 N55 models.

    BMW parts sales figures show BMW is replacing in excess of 25,000 N54 HPFPs annually in the U.S. The reported latest trick-of-the-month flavor HPFP ends in number "402" but they are in limited supply. It has been preceded by five or six other "THIS is the CURE" HPFP part numbers from MY 2007 onward.

    The new HPFPs are arriving quicker with each version yet the failures continue. This is reality. How BMW owners react to this situation is their choice. There are numerous class action lawsuits for the N54 HPFP failures, hundreds of Safety Complaints filed with NHTSA.gov and many Lemoned N54/x35i models.

    No doubt the more accidents, injuries and fatalities that occur the sooner the N54/55 HPFP issue will be properly resolved, but at what cost to BMW owners? Is this what BMW stands for? :(

    I believe in Full Disclosure of a known Safety Defect. IMO no consumer should be allowed to purchase a BMW N54/N55 powered vehicle without first reading the Safety Complaints filed at NHTSA.gov and signing a statement that they have read and understand the safety issues and ramifications that exist on these models.
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    Honestly, I recommend avoiding the 335 in all its variants. My father's 335xi has been to the dealer twice for HPFP, and my 335i is in for the same thing right now. BMW has even notified me of the possibility of failure of the HPFP via letter - but not a recall. My car stopped in the middle of an intersection when it ssputtered and stalled out, eventually giving me a code of 2FBF - fuel pump failure.

    I am a 3 time BMW consumer, and my entire family is a fan of the Roundel. But, one refuses to drive one - she has watched the service experience and it has been horrendous (damaged paint jobs, cars not repaired after service, outright lies from Service advisors) - though loaner cars and a dealer shuttle and BMW roadside assist have made things a bit easier. My father is actively seeking to sell his 335xi before the 50,000 mile mark, due to HPFP troubles and excessive RFT problems (multiple rims, multiple tires, rapid wear).

    In my humble opinion - get the M3. No run flats, no HPFP troubles, no turbo longetivity questions. Plus, umm, you get an M3!
    • Member

    eam3

    Post Count: 324
    Likes Received:2
    Not an E90 but our 535i had the pump replaced back in January after a major failure on the highway. Since then it has given the error message and lost power 3 times (including yesterday) and is back at the dealer for the same reason. Our lease on the 535i ends in just over 1 month and needless to say, my wife does not want another BMW. She's not "whining" about it, she just wants something reliable to replace it.

    RBinDC guest

    Post Count: 82
    Likes Received:2
    Where did you get the data on HPFP sales? If we can get the 335i sales figures and divide them by the HPFP sales we can get an upper bound estimate of the per vehicle failure rates. It would be an upper bound because we know that multiple failures occur for the same vehicle.

    Are these data publicly available?

    ForcedInduction guest

    Post Count: 358
    Likes Received:4
    None of the data is public or the laywers would have a field day... :(

    TheStigsTwin guest

    Post Count: 24
    Likes Received:0
    For the record: you guys are scaring the crap out of me.:confused:
    • Member

    Pyewacket1

    Post Count: 274
    Likes Received:5
    Then it begs the question...

    "Where did you get the data, and is it any more reliable than anyones else's data being presented here?"

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, but it seems a reasonable question to ask.

    ForcedInduction guest

    Post Count: 358
    Likes Received:4
    I obtained the data directly from BMW and confirmed it's accuracy from several BMW sources.

    Personally I wish BMW would use full-disclosure so all owners and consumers knew exactly what the failure rate is, what BMW believes is the root cause of the HPFP failures, why there is a new HPFP every couple months and why the problem has not been resolved after five model years.
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    I agree, we would be better served if BMW published more information about this problem.

    But, I just want to know how it is that the BMW dealer tells me the my car is ready to go, after it was flatbedded in due to a CEL (codes for HPFP, including 2FBF present), and I pick the car up after the software update, only to have it die within 100 yards of the dealer (same codes plus some new ones for cylinder misfires).

    BMW's LATEST SOFTWARE UPDATE IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME, and it might get you stuck in adverse or dangerous circumstances.

    I am seriously considering trying to get out the vehicle due to this issue. And, as loyal customers of the roundel, we all know that BMW has a history of denying the existence of problems until they become overwhelmingly apparent -- think about subfloors in early Z3s and those old plastic impellers on the M50 waterpumps. Those failed catastrophically for years before bmw ever did anything to address the problems.

    I also counsel all potential customers to avoid this potential problem by buying a different car.

    ForcedInduction guest

    Post Count: 358
    Likes Received:4
    Currently the software upgrade is mandated by BMW before any other repairs can be performed even when HPFP failure codes have been generated.

    The software update cycles the low pressure fuel pump longer to build system fuel pressure because the HPFP is unable to hold the proper system fuel pressure for start-up. This software compensation approach doesn't prevent the failure of the HPFP though it may delay the failure for a few minutes/hours/days/weeks/months depending on what condition your HPFP is in when the software patch is applied.

    It's a very bad situation for all parties involved IMO.
    • Member

    E92Dreier

    Post Count: 169
    Likes Received:2
    Ding Ding Ding. Winnnnnarrrr!
    • Member

    floydarogers

    Post Count: 325
    Likes Received:13
    It's interesting to me that Toyota is recalling 1.3M cars, after NHTSA got 163 (yes, one hundred and sixty-three) complaints of Corollas stalling, yet we can't get accurate numbers on what is clearly a bigger number.:rolleyes:

    ForcedInduction guest

    Post Count: 358
    Likes Received:4

    It would appear that NHTSA is on the hot seat for not performing their responsibilities very well in recent years. My understanding is they really are under-staffed and funded. The Toyota bogus unintended acceleration claims made it obvious that NHTSA needs more resources to address the safety issues that develop in all brands.

    Up until the Toyota fiasco, NHTSA basically made deals with car makers to extend warranties on defects because NHTSA did not have the resources to investigate all of the safety and defect issues thoroughly and mandate complete recalls. This may change very soon. There are elected officials in DC who are aware of the N54/55 HPFP issues and a lot of lobbying going on but in the end BMW may be forced to recall every one of these vehicles for a proper repair? We will see if the new NHTSA has the wherewithal to get the job done properly and in a timely fashion.

    I would suggest that anyone interested in the N54/55 HPFP safety issue, contact NHTSA.gov and ask them why with hundreds of BMW N54 safety complaints filed including reports of accidents when the N54 HPFP fails, why no official recall has been mandated.

    TheStigsTwin guest

    Post Count: 24
    Likes Received:0
    Have any of you seen any mention of this problem in Roundel?
    • Member

    floydarogers

    Post Count: 325
    Likes Received:13
    There have been letters, but nothing in TechTalk and no article.

Share This Page