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1-Series Z?

Discussion in 'E85 Z4 (2002-2008)' started by SchnuckiE30, Dec 25, 2009.

    SchnuckiE30 guest

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    Any word one a 1-based Z roadster? I continually scan Roundel for stuff like this and that's a ride I'd love to scoop up.

    BMW information and Heard on the Strasse is always the first section I attack with every issue.

    I know this might be out of Roundel convention, but can you do a report of the complete luxury that the 7 Series provides - driver, passenger, rear passengers. The new 7 came out and we were treated to how it can smoke Willow Run, but I think that's not the whole picture there. Maybe I missed something in the reports but I don't remember descriptions on the whole experience, just tire-smoking powerslides and such.

    Keep up the great work folks!!!!

    Smithereens Rocks!

    Jenny is the best! Keep on wrenchin'!!!!!
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    bcweir

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    What's wrong with the 1-series convertible?

    It's a model that already exists.
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    Zedfor

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    I don't think he is referring to the original Z1 sliding door sardine can.
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    bcweir

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    Since you didn't read the title...

    I had said there is already a 1-series convertible in the lineup. Why do we need a 1-based "roadster" in addition to that?
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    Zedfor

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    Because a sedan without a top is not a roadster. If you carry your logic out to the full then we don't need the Z4 because we have the 3 Series verts and the 6 Series verts. I think what Schnucki is really alluding to is that a small less expensive BMW sports car would be nice and I agree. When you can get an MX-5 for around $25k, why not a new BMW roadster for a few grand more?
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    Satch SoSoCalifortified

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    Yeah, what happened to the Z2?

    Last year there were so many rumors about a small, entry-level roadster that we really expected them to surprise us with a concept at the Frankfurt show. Surprise, yes; Z2 roadster, no. Maybe all the hints were alluding to the Vision Concept. But I still think a two-liter for under $30,000 would sell like blintzes....
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    bcweir

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    I see a number of problems with this

    First of all, BMW already sells a four cylinder powered convertible under $30,000 called the MINI. The Mini convertible already sells for between $24,250 - $34,000. That's a pretty awkward price point, because this Z2 convertible would be competing in the marketplace with another similar BMW-produced product.

    Secondly, the Z3 already started out with a 1.9L engine 14 years ago. It was widely panned for being expensive and slow, a criticism that would likely still be very valid today with the added safety and other equipment most buyers would be expecting what would certainly be a $30,000 plus automobile. That's going to increase the weight problem even further, further complicating the four cylinder's primary reason for being in the car -- fuel economy. Also, the weight is going to give the engine more work to do in order to provide decent performance.

    Then when you do that and start piling on the options, buyers will take a look and realize, hey for just x-dollars more, I can move into a roomier/more powerful/more value 128 or 135 series convertible, further hammering another nail into the Z2 roadster's coffin.

    Hate to say this, but there is just no room in the price range for your Z2 roadster. BMW is not going to price it cheaper than the Mini/Mini Cooper topless model, and the Mini model is already dangerously close to the 1-series convertible's pricing.

    Oh and one more thing. Rumor is spelled R-U-M-O-R, not R-O-O-M-E-R.
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    Satch SoSoCalifortified

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    Indeed!

    Argh: Spell Check doesn't work for homophones, does it?!

    You're probably right about the market for a smaller roadster, in either four or six cylinders. I quite liked the Z4 2.0 we drove in Europe several years ago; that two-liter six was lively enough to remind me of an earlier sports-car era.

    We had similar results with the new Z4 2.3i---again, not for US consumption---we took to France in September. But BMW has placed the Z4 as pretty much a fifty-grand buy-in in the US.

    Probably they're looking to satisfy any customers in that niche with the Mini roadster, as you say.
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    bcweir

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    You're definitely right about that, Satch.

    I'm not sure what would have to change first: American expectations and perceptions about ANY BMW roadster (loaded, leather and power everything, etc). We do after all, live in a country that orders the vast majority of BMW's as automatic-equipped cars. Think about the message THAT sends to BMW about what can be sold here.

    A note about automatics - I am talking about true automatic transmissions. I am not talking about SMGs or DCT equipped transmissions.

    It might also be a possible clue why we can't get any of those wonderful fours over here. On one hand, I think even the current traditional automatics would tragically sqaunder what torque and horsepower was available. Suddenly, it's not a BMW anymore - it's a Buick with a Roundel on the hood. I can see how BMW would worry that would dilute their sporting image.

    Sure, BMW could offer such a bare bones automobile (cloth seats, manual roll up windows, limit airbags to two, offer only a five or six speed manual transmission, no i-Drive, no nav, conventional power steering, ABS, a regular non-automatic ride control suspension, etc.) What then? I doubt BMW could sell enough of these to justify the customs hoops they'd have to jump through to be worth it. Never mind that such a decontented vehicle could likely weigh under 3,000 pounds.

    The problem is that Americans would not perceive such a vehicle to be a BMW, but most would perceive it as a barebones cheat (you want me to pay $30,000 for THAT?). Whereas, European buyers would consider such a car to be an UPGRADE.

    As cool as it might be to have such a vehicle, the problem is that BMW would have to sell more (a LOT more) than 5 or 10 of them to be profitable.

    As far as the so-called "weight problem" people claim BMW's have these days, I feel it's an unrealistic and patently unfair accusation. Consumer demand insists on all this stuff, as much as my fellow Americans don't want to hear it, all those electronics and fancy doodads they are insisting on take up weight. And while a relative few insist they could do without all that stuff,, BMW still has to sell more than just a handful of these cars to make money. Sadly, the reality is that the vast majority are going to insist on these luxury-laden, automatic equipped, so-called bloat mobiles.

    People need to understand they can't have it both ways, and BMW is probably right that they would likely not break even manufacturing these stripped out cars.
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    z4luvr

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    If the Z4 sold in greater numbers, perhaps BMW would add the lower end Z2 as rumored, but the lower end convertible or roadster competition is made by lower cost manufacturers. I think it would be wiser to tackle this price point with a Mini.
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    Zedfor

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    I have to disagree that a Z2 would not sell. Of course it would. The MINI is not a roadster in any way, shape or form. Yes, it is a fun car to drive if you like front wheel drive boxes, which I don't. I personally think it is ugly (too cute?) and the interior is contrived, but to each his (or her) own. With the Z4 starting at over $45K now is the perfect time for a less expensive sports car. If I may reiterate, a sedan or coupe with the top chopped off is not a sports car. A sports car is a purpose design, just as a GT is a purpose design. A convertible MINI or a convertible 3 Series may be sporty, but they are not sports cars in the classic sense. Of course this is just my opinion and I could be wrong. I was once before, or so I was told. ; )
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    Zedfor

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    Was I reading correctly in the January issue that there may be a 0 Series Roadster?

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