I think an important goal in any new classing system would be to even out the participation numbers. Every year we have well over 20 drivers running in 5A and 1 driver in class 4A. And to make a personal whine, every year my '99 M Coupe with street tires and a 30-year old rear suspension design has to compete against the most heavily modifed modern V-8 M3s on R-compound tires just because I've chosen to add aftermarket springs. Woody Hair
Are the classes listed at the autocross area of the bmwccaofest website correct or outdated? At first glance, they appear to be the old classes, which would mean if we registered with that classing system, our classes could be incorrect.
I've made this suggestion before and I'll make it again. If I'm not mistaken, FTD has been the only AX entrant to win a set of tires. 99% of the participants in the O'Fest AX are not going to have any chance whatsoever for the FTD. Everyone else competes for bragging rights and trophies only....no tires. Why not have a drawing of all the 1st place finishers for a set of tires. That way everyone has a chance to compete for a set of tires. If the sponsor can fork over two sets of tires, then the FTD can get a set and draw from the class winners for the second set. I know that would intensify the competition in each class knowing that the winner had a chance for a substantial prize rather than just a trophy. Murray Crow 91 e34 M5 91 850i/6 05 X3 3.0i
That is certainly an interesting suggestion. A drawing was held by the 3 winners of the 2002 Continental TSD Rally. I won a set of Contis that year. Someone would have to watch closely the classes. You may find this unbelievable, but people do lie about their mods. Shocking, I know.
Understood and unfortunately, at one O'fest, I had to challenge, (successfully), a contestant who was obviously in the wrong class. I guess the only solution would be some type of inspection to certify proper classing.
Some people genuinely don't know their class while others know better. With the limited time between the the last car and scoring there is probably not enough time to have a protest.
About the time these yahoos start taking this stuff so seriously is the time I drop out. Hey, if you have to cheat to win a trophy, just go down to your local trophy shop and have one made to your specifications! It's cheaper in the long run, and you won't tarnish the atmosphere of honorable friendly competition. That said, I admire the scheming of those who lead their overzealous competitors to believe that they might be cheating, just to watch them bunching up their bloomers in frustration because we're—uh, those people—might have an Unfair Advantage.
Ah, there's also human error to be taken into account. I believe Murray is talking about the 2010 event where I was chair. I inadvertently overlooked some classification errors. They were not so much 'challenged' as pointed out - and corrected as quickly as possible. Knowing the parties involved, I can assure you that almost no one is too serious about this, Satch. At least not enough to bother cheating.
I run the BMW Autocross events to have fun, I compete at the SCCA events. I live in Southern California and run at events with both the San Diego and LA clubs. You owe it to your self to come south and run at Qualcom. The West lot is big and has elevation. Third gear can be part of the equation. The surface is breaking down but by the end of the day your line is easy to follow. The LA events are now at AAA Speedway in Fontana. Smaller lot but still very fun. Then we, the SCCA, add El Toro to the mix. Yes we are spoiled. The current car is a 1982 320i built to our local "H" Stock Historic 2. Cars from 1969 to 1985 fall into the SCCA guide lines, the E21 fits into H. The car still passes smog in California, has to have stock springs and only the front bar is upgraded. The lack of tires in 13" has required we go plus one. I have a set of 14X6 BBS from a 323 and I run the new Dunlop's, 185/60/14 tires. Have they announced the site for the event in Montery? Are we running at the airport in Marina? I plan I being at the event, at least one of my kids will be co-driving our car and we are just going to soak it all in. Be prepared for fog in the morning and warm in the afternoon. August on the central coast!
It's always fun to kick the ant pile and see what comes out. A lot of discussion is always good. Didn't think my suggestion would result in this much discussion. Personally, I like Murray's idea above. Take all the first place finishers, throw them in a hat and award one of them the tires for that day. Some one who struggled to win their class on a limited budget (not an autocross only car) finds themselves taking home a big prize.
I think that's a fine suggestion, too. However, it doesn't do anything to address the significant advantage afforded to any competitor running dedicated auto-x tires, which takes us right back to the point you first made - the only way to make the competition fairer to the O'Fest occasional autocross competitors is to just ban slicks, track tires, and dedicated auto-x tires entirely as far as eligibility for FTD prizes/trophies; a bragging rights mention for FTD on slicks, ok. There is some irony to running a set of hoosiers costing $800-$1k or more to be as competitive as possible to try to win FTD and a set of the sponsor's tires that would cost roughly the same as what was spent for the auto-x tires in the attempt to win the competition. Do O'Fest auto-x rules & classifications fall under the purview of the national board? Mel's first suggestion of treadwear rated 140 or higher non-slick dot-approved street tires is most logical, as it fits SCCA classes, and likely the stickiest of BMW oem tires. Doing nothing, things will continue as they have, the track and auto-x junkies, whose blood runs orange polyethylene, running hoosiers on more-track-&-auto-x-dedicated-than-not cars will continue eclipsing most other O'Fest auto-xers for trophies, FTD, and any FTD tire prize, leaving the rest doing it for kicks - although it's still fun and a personal challenge even if there's no chance of trophying or better, but thinking there might be a hopeful chance is always nice. The other option as I see it gets into acknowledging and classifying the different ranges of track and auto-x tires, but that quickly gets to be a sticky wicket as to how to make it work, and that means the most dedicated competitors will still be opting for the expensive dedicated tires to stand a chance for FTD, prizes, and/or trophies. A simple rules change here can keep it all more in the fun zone for everybody; I say Mel & Murray's suggestions are good ones & worth considering.
Locally the 4 cylinder, non-M or Mini get one group. When the E30 supercharged 318 on R's runs the die is cast. Having him run on harder tires is not going to change the results. But if our times were indexed based on the level of preparation and tires my H "Stock" 320 is very competitive. With all the cars at an event. The SCCA PAX classing is a guide. If you have fixed the lack of camber on your car and/or changed the springs your is now "Street Prepared". Then when you start removing things like interior and bumpers your car is Prepared. Adding the turbo/supercharger you are now in Mod. Next year they are looking at adding a street tire limited prep class and moving the non-M E36 to D Stock. If you have not checked them out lately you might give them a try.
I just found this thread after registering for Ofest last week... This will be my first Ofest including its auto-x, but certainly not my first auto-x nor track event. At the LA Chapter we use San Diego's classing, which are simple enough including how to take tires into account. After reading the whole thread I now realize regular Ofest classes are going to be used, but I'm not sure what Ofest rules are/say since all I know now is M3s, 1Ms and race cars run on Friday. What do Ofest rules say about tires and/or mods ?? if anything ??. I'll be running on a bone stock 1M on non stock tires, but they're not R-compounds nor race tires nor Hoosier A6s, just 140 treadware tires that are good on a auto-x. From what I'm reading here about FTD I'm guessing all cars will be running on the same class on Friday regardless of the tires being used. So, what's the story on tires for the Friday auto-x ?
Ahem, I believe that it also includes M Roadsters (although that seems to exclude M Coupes, do they run on Thursday? That seems silly). What about the M5 and M6?
Friday E30 M3 E36 M3 E46 M3 E92 M3 Z3 M Roadsters & M Coupes Z4 M Roadsters & M Coupes 1 M coupe racecars Thursday everyone else.
