Not feeling the love anymore

It all comes down to this: there will always be people who complain about their cars, no matter what they own. Doesn't matter what make, every single company has issues, some more than others. Whether the issues have become more or less severe is irrelevant. I wholeheartedly agree with CWalsh about maintenance. Hell, even a 3-year-old car needs maintenance.

Those people who complain about their new cars are usually complaining about electrical items. Electrical gadgets are not something that's going to go away, so every single manufacturer will have this problem. Don't hear any complaints from people who own other cars? Look around more and/or join their respective clubs; you'll get your ear's worth. It seems that many BMW owners are upset with their cars because we hear so many of them complain; the Roundel is partly responsible for getting their voices heard. If we received magazines for other car clubs, we'd hear their issues as well.




nopcbs - I believe you are 100% correct; car companies don't give a flying *not-so-nice-word* about its customers; they just want to make money. If they cared, they'd be out of business, even if their cars were absolutely perfect.



So, if he wants to sell his car, fine, let him do it, and let the rest of us continue in our love/hate relationships with our cars. Remember, not all of us are of the "owning this car is a labor of love" breed.

Letter in Motor City Courier from unhappy 330CiC owner

*******************************************************************************************************
Letter is about his 2001 330CiC with 56,000 miles and an automatic bought new (yeah, I know he should not have bought an automatic and BMW automatics are a poor example of the breed...they should have kept on buying hydramatics from GM). He says that his transmission fluid has basically dried to a brown mass and the tranny is toast. Says that his BMW shop is trying to get BMW to help. He also says that he found 65 web pages describing this kind of thing with 1999 to 2003 3-series cars owned by others. This guy just another whiner or is this another example of poor BMW engineering that ought to be played up to shame them into improving? Dunno, but I'm glad The Courier published his letter. Good warning for me and others.

I also don't think that all car companies don't give a rat's patootie about their customers. I have not owned a Honda, but have read stories about Honda going the extra mile to help a customer out of warranty. Toyota had the oil sludge problem from too long oil change intervals and after some hesitation they did the right thing and are helping their customers out. Even GM has contributed to repairs for me on failures that occurred out of warranty. I am not sure how much BMW does this sort of thing.

My bigger problem with BMW is that they under-engineer some aspects of their cars and are slow to fix the problem after it becomes well known. And they deny there is a problem even after it is all over the internet with lots of owners reporting the same thing. Classic examples are the plastic waterpump impellers, the 3-Series sun-roof guides that fail, the poorly designed power window mechanisms, the too thin metal on shock towers that causes tear away, the automatic mirror mechanism that seems to forget how to work, to name a few that I know about (and personally fear have happening to my car). I think part of this is a cultural thing with them. Germans are famous for over-designing, over-complicating, and under-engineering (for reliability) and then refusing to acknowledge problems. It's like the German tanks of WWII. Technically superior to everyone elses, except they broke all the time, were overly complex and hard to repair, and expensive to build.

- nopcbs

I'm not very technical, nor do I know the specifics of the letter/his [or her] situation (and I might be wrong), but that sounds like an issue caused by transmission fluid and not the transmission. Even then, BMW does not manufacture the transmission, therefore it wouldn't be their fault IF it had a design defect, though I agree they should do something about it. But, take this into consideration: if it truly was defective, wouldn't the majority of those cars with that transmission have the issue? And by majority, I don't mean 5% as some people use the term 'majority' for, I mean over 50%. Last I checked, most E46 3ers out there with automatic transmissions were working fine in that department. This sounds like an individual issue, in the same way that a person receives a defective motherboard for a computer, despite multiple people receiving a bad board. Just because a few people (no matter how many as long as it's much, much less than the majority) have had this issue doesn't make it a mass problem. A lack of judgement on BMW's part for using a particular transmission fluid, or the decision to use a "lifetime" fluid and not recommend changing the fluid? Maybe, but IF it is caused by something simple such as not changing the fluid, then that's the owner's fault, directly or indirectly (due to a lack of knowledge about fluid changes).

If someone who understands these issues please explain this to me, I might be enlightened and understand the point nopcbs is making, if he is making a point [that I might be failing to see...] I understand that BMW should help in certain cases, but if it ultimately is the customer's fault, then why should they, even if the customers were following BMW recommendations of not changing the fluid (once again, IF the fluid is to blame)?






But, I am really tired and am probably rambling useless garbage because I'm fragged, so if I'm not making sense, then please excuse me...

Yep, I know that...

... just have not gotten around to climing undr and removing it. I know some people sell "gelded" replacemnt valve bodies for little or nothing.Point is, what possessed the BMW engineers to put such a device in a zhp?

- nopcbs

To those who complain about BMW build quality

I drove Toyota for 11 years and had trouble with them, I had to replace two windows regulators on my 1995 Camry, at 87000 I had to replace the radiator, by the time I traded it in for a BMW, It had a vibration at 50 mph, this after replacing both CV joints.
I traded it in for a 1999 BMW 328i CPO car in 2001 and still love driving it after seven years, I had to put in some money to maintain it but it's been worth it for me.
Toyota's legendary relaibility has eluded me.

bcweir: +1

...the prime model years of which are no longer produced, the exception possibly being the new(er) EVO, but I haven't driven that one. The newer models of the RX and STI are trading fun-to-driveness for ride comfort and reliability. This is certainly subjective, but taking a quick read over any number of car magazines at least tells me that I'm not alone in my thinking. Please don't make me site articles--this is a casual conversation originally started to solicit opposing responses just like these. Happens on all the make-specific forums.

BUT, as always, it comes down to personal preference. I'm willing to put up with a certain amount of BS here and there because driving my BMW is otherwise one of the highlights of my day. I simply love its feel, how it drives. The fact that the top part of my driver's side door panel has a small dent in it from where my elbow rests when I'm driving annoys the hell out of me. This is something that might be just enough to push someone else over to a Japanese company. Luckily for me, I'm nearly always enjoying the driving experience so much that I don't notice it until I leave the car. Then again, maybe it's just separation anxiety. OK, so my water pump is working fine. I'm still planning on swapping it out at 50,000 miles preemptively. I think the superior driving experience comes at the cost of some reliability and the need for slightly more maintenance. I'm sure BMW could continue their tradition of drivability with the added bonus of superior reliability, but I'm not convinced that these two characteristics together would't add significantly to the cost of a vehicle. BMW is a business, after all, and doesn't the ultimate vote of approval come with a vehicle sale?

In the case of the CPO car? How did the last guy take care of it? Did he skip oil changes? Did the dealer scalp parts from other vehicles with questionable histories? And CPO from a dealer that recommends 15,000 mile oil changes? We'll never know the whole story. When the time comes, I fully intend to tell the next guy how I took amazingly good care of my car, using Mike's old school maintenance schedule, insisting on truly synthetic manual gearbox lube, washing, waxing, testing oil samples... I'll probably sell mine in the back of Roundel.

Funny you mention the cars in that order. I got my first ride with my uncle and his good friend during a transit on an SCCA rally. I was 9 years old. The Supra TT was fully race-prepped with the exception of a single back seat "panel." (The rest was stripped.) It was ridiculously fast, and all I remember was the road changing abruptly to gravel in the country, and I don't think there was much as far as DTC then. You can imagine the rest. I was hooked. Years later I drove another Supra TT quite a bit, which ultimately lead me to a friend of mine whose dad had an RX7. We had a ton of fun with that thing. Then at the end of college, my senior year roommate bought an STI. We drove from the U of IL out to CT where he relocated to start his new job. Had an absolute blast in that thing, too. I highly recommend the Taconic Parkway in NY during off-peak hours. I can't say that any of those cars didn't have their share of issues, and from a maintenance perspective, my 2.5-year relationship with my 330 certainly hasn't been anything that I would consider above and beyond. Where it is above and beyond, however, is in how it feels to drive. Not a "just because," but my personal preference compared to the other cars I've driven.

iDrive... bah. I love the concept. It just isn't executed very well at all in my 2006 330xi. Funny how a lot of manufactures have that little joystick thingie now, though, isn't it?

My $.02.

Rick

Caved in and bought another Beamer

Wow! It seems I really struck a nerve here and agree with everything that everyone had to say. I'm beginning to realize that owning a BMW is truly a LOVE/HATE relationship, one that I'm coming back to when my 09 BMW 328i is delivered sometime in February 09.

I have to admit I'm a little disappointed in my Acura TSX, which I just posted to Cars.com and hope to sell quickly. I purchased it new and had to get the front brake pads AND rotors replaced at just under 5K miles and the SAME EXACT issue has crept up again - my brakes are shuttering when I apply them. Hmmm...so much for Japanese quality.

The decision to sell my TSX wasn't a difficult one as I've missed the extreme thrill I always got when I drove my 02 BMW. I almost cried as it was being driven away. To this day I hope the girl who bought it is taking care of her. Perhaps I'll have luck with my new one that has yet to be built and continue to experience little problems with her AFTER the warranty expires.

Already? That was quick...

I totally agree with your wife. I'm a new bimmer owner myself. (7yrs in the making). I've always driven chevy trucks and 5spd hondas. I still do enjoy honda's, but they are not a driver's car (as many on here would agree with). Honda's are cheaper cars and don't cost as much in maintenance. BMWs on the other hand are more expensive and you need to strictly follow the maintenance plan (so I've been told). But that's just the price you pay for owning a driver's car.

I had an '03 MDX and the dealership gave me an '08 TSX as a loaner. I liked it, although it would've been better as a stick. I almost got a TSX but figured I've always wanted a bimmer, so I got the bimmer at an Acura dealership! I have an '06 325i, lemme know how you like your 328i when you get it.

OK; welcome back. But please ... Beemers are bikes:



Cars are Bimmers ... and 'Beamers' are Old Farts© who drive their Buicks around with the high beams on all the time.

The thing that is really too bad is that the OPs noise in the rear is probably coming from a bad rear shock mount, bad sway bar bushing, or a bad rear trailing arm bushing. It could also possibly be a blown damper but that would be a little more rare.

The good thing about BMWs is that at least the things that break can generally be predicted and there are generally higher quality parts that they can be replaced with (mostly thanks to Meyle HD, PowerFlex, and a bunch of other aftermarket companies).