Isn't the M6 sort of an "M5 Coupe"? I mean, yest, some liberies are taken with the shape, but powertrain and systems are pretty much the same, right?
well....... That doesn't seem right. The M6 is not an M5 coupe and frankly, neither one is as good as the M3 as a performance car. So I have to go back to the original supposition that there is no M5 coupe because the M3 is so good. Doesn't anyone out there want to disagree?
I agree that the M6 isn't an M5 coupe, the question goes back to you, I see you own an Audi S5, Is the M3 is a better perfomance car? To be serious, I have owned an M3, M5 and currently in an M6. They are all very different, with different personalities. There are quite a bit of M6 owners that use to drive M3s, I don't know any that have gone back, although there probably are some. The shorter wheelbase of the M3 clearly makes it better in the twisty bits. The M6 carries about 10% more wieght, about 20% more power, but for me that isn't the biggest difference. What I appreciate most about the M6 is that with the full leather option you basically don't have all the plastic inside you get with most other performance cars including the M3. Like I said, I have owned an M3, thoroughly enjoyed it, owned an M5 it was unbelievable, and now completely into my M6. I won't be going back to an M3, my next M car will be the 1M I suspect.
The M3 is superior in all aspects of performance to the S5, except winter driving and perhaps the sleek appearance. You have had an M3 but have you driven the V8 414 hp version? M driving school let's you drive the newest versions of the M3,M5, and M6. And in our group of 20 , most of whom already had an M5 or 6----2 of us owned the new M3----the unanimous winner in handling and driving pleasure was the M3--theM6 won the vote for best looking Also, regarding audi, the latest S4 doesn't even come close to M3 in any way-- S5 was more fun and much better appointed interior. I do admit that the M6 is amazing and will likely be the next vehicle when I know longer want to drive on the track---quality of BMW is clearly better than Audi so far. (and I freely proclaim that on the Audi forum as well )
Haven't yet driven the 414HP M3, I had an E46. I am not surprised at all that folks preferred the M3 on the track. I have tracked my M6, loved the torque and power coming out of the corners but the car was a bit big in the tighter sections. In addition, the electronic damper control proved handy for the track days. I drove my E46 M3 cross country, I also would prefer the M3 on the track, but the M6 would be my hands down choice for doing the cross country drive, no surprise as it is classified as a grand touring car. I love the lines of the S5 was seriously thinking of getting one for my "snow car". Styling wise I am partial to the larger coupes.
S5 is a winner too And I highly recommend the S5 as a winter car. I love the look of the bigger coupe as well, and the S5 always gets a lot of looks. It is the best winter car/SUV I have ever had---unstoppable in the worst possible conditions (Central NY w/ record snow, ice, etc.) with the quatro system and those Blizzak's on (and winter specific 18"rims) including deep, deep snow and relative low ground clearance--I can't tell you how many big SUV's I've passed without a hint of loss of control.. I have not had a chance to drive it yet in the 19" wheels with good summer tires---I know it will be good but I still suspect it's not quite as fine as the V8 M3 (or the M6). Those big coupes are beautiful. The 335xi coupe is another option--fantastic winter car too (spouse has one) but not quite as eye catching as the S5.
There are camoed M5s driving around Europe and more recently in the LA suburbs. M5board has the biggest concentration of M5 owners, doesn't seem to be too many here. Oh, and M5 owner checking in.
Well, that probably was not a 2011 M5 that I saw, it was too far ahead in the car wash to be sure. I"ll check out the M5board, thanks.
Oh, REALLY? Lemme tell you...I've had my E60 M5 on the track at Road America and I pass new M3's at about 30 mph faster they they can go. And on that track, I've never been passed by any M3. And that's like out of eight hours of DE with BMWCCA. So, all I can tell you is bring your pink. I'll own your M3. I like them for around town.
On track, i.e. HPDE, it's all about the driver and tires. The 1/4 trap speeds between the E90/92 M3 and the E60 M5 are only about 3mph apart. This is the best and most accurate measure of power/weight ratio. There is no road race track in the country where a stock E60 M5 and a stock E90 M3, both driven by equivalent drivers will ever see a difference of 30mph on any straight. Not even close. If you really want to race for pink slips you better hope a good driver with an E92 M3 doesn't take you up on the offer. Of course, here's hoping you don't drive at HPDE events like this...
Actually, there is a place. Going up the hill on the main straight at Road America. There the extra torque allows the M5s to blow right past. This isn't illusory. I've seen and done it too many times. And since we're all on street tires anyway, that's a push. And no, I don't run for pinks. The M3s advantage is on smaller tracks where their quickness comes in to play. The more the track is built for high speed with changes in elevation, the better for the M5. I'm just saying...
I would bet large amounts of money on your 30mph speed difference claim...all assuming equal drivers. Hence I don't think there is a place on any track in the USA where there is any chance of such a difference occurring...again, assuming equal drivers. You're simply seeing the difference in drivers, throttle application, previous corner exit speed, etc.
I wouldn't bet a large amt. I just know what I saw and on large track, it's no contest. Stock M5 wins every time. Would it be different on a tighter track with shorter straights? Probably.
Again, assuming that at that large track, the E60 M5 will dominate the E92 M3 to a great extent is likely a falsehood based on your direct experience passing some given driver(s) of unknown ability, etc. For example: Would you agree that the M6 should be faster on any given track than your M5? It's lighter, has a smaller (frontal area * Cd) total aero drag, same engine, etc. On any given track, driven by identical drivers, the M6 will win -- easily. Now, VIR Grand East course includes one of the longest straights of any road course in North America with a back straight over 4000 feet long followed shortly thereafter by a front straight over 3000 feet long. In the Car and Driver lightning lap competitions, the E92 M3 best lap was 3:05.4. The M6 best lap was 3:10.0. The M3 easily beats the M6, and if an E60 M5 was there it would be a couple of seconds behind the M6. At the finish line as you're waiting for the cars to cross, that 4.6 second lead the M3 has equates to about 175' lead for the M3, or about 12 car lengths. Anyone there witnessing the outcome would be thinking about what a beat-down the M3 gave the other car. So, in summary, at a large track, it is no contest, except you got the winner wrong. The M3 wins every time even given its competing against the M6 and that VIR's back straight is 1000' longer than Road America's longest straight. In fact, the "short" front straight at VIR is about equal to Road America's straight in length. Hence at VIR we have a total of over 7000' wide open straightaways, but the M6 (and M5) can't come close to the M3's lap time. Again, don't bet that pink slip, but if you are truly inclined to do so, I'm ready to buy an E92 M3 and take the bet. Cheers,
Just checked the German magazine's Sport Auto "Supertest" numbers on the Nordschliefe. Indeed, the M3 E92 is some 8 sec faster than the E60 M5. Thus proving yr point. I guess the upshot of this is that yes the M3 is faster than the M5, but not when MY M5 is on the track.
Lots of individual factors for sure as you mentioned. On a side note, trap speeds depending on the car might differ a bit more. A stickshift M5 is slower than SMG by about 3- 5mph in trap speed....and an M3 with Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) is about 2-3mph faster than a stickshift M3. So basically a stickshfit M5 traps about as fast as a DCT M3, and an SMG M5 outtraps a stickshift M3 by 5-8mph based on tests I've seen. Extra torque? As long as the M3 is in the right gear, gearing should take care of the torque difference. The M3 is almost as fast as the M5. No way you're blowing by them at 30mph more if they A. Can drive, and B. are in it. Might just be perception. So would I. Well said. I might have to buy that M3 too.....we'll see who gets one first. This is correct, however a number of people claim the 8:13 time of the M5 at the Nurburgring involved the hitting of a speed governor (which I find hard to believe), and supposedly without the governor on the car ran a 7:52, which again, I find hard to believe.
Just a quick note on the new 2013 M5. I own a 1988 M5 and obviously love it. Stopped by he dealership in Bentonville. Ak. They made a big deal over my 88 and said "hey we just traded for a 2013 M5. Want to drive it?" Well thanks for ruining my life! It was an absolute mind blowing experience. You can not adequately describe the power and refinement of the car. For a week now I am just wondering around with a stupid grin. Can't afford one, will never own one, but really happy I drove one.
