Is it just me or does anyone else think that leaving out the results for the events for the 2010 O'fest in Roundel was disappointing? Yes, I know they are available online... but there's something about having them in the event reports that just makes more sense to me. Thoughts?
I know they're available online now, but will they be readlily available 10-15 years from now. What with Wikileaks, will there be an internet 10-15 years from now? I truly go to past issues and look at O'fest results years later. How many Roundel readers with just a casual interest will drop their magazines and rush to the PC to check on who finished 4th in Autocross Class 5B? I think it sucks and told Satch so in an email right after getting my truncated Oktoberfest issue.
Well, after this public lambasting, I hope he can see it isn't an irremediable problem - and it would save him paying somebody to fill the space with verbiage.
Heavy sigh. . . I believe Woody's complaint will run in an upcoming issue, along with my reply. As for the viability of the Internet, well, hell, if somehow Wikileaks brings the whole thing down, we'll have a lot more free time, now, won't we?! Tell me, are those black helicopters still circling your neighborhood, too? When I worked for a GIS software firm in Alaska, they had an interesting exercise involving a simulated oil spill in Prince William Sound, accessing a slew of databases to maintain real-time information on all aspects of the spill. The bottleneck turned out to be the printer, because people seem to need a piece of paper with a map on it---even though the data was obsolete by the time the map was printed. I posited the notion that we simply do not trust the Interwebs as a permanent depository. And I suppose I am as much of a Luddite as anyone else, because I still have a ridiculous collection of old Roundels. . . . But I have never, never looked up the result of any Oktoberfest game in them. Which would you rather have, Woody, the picture of your car that made it into the O'Fest issue or a list of statistics? More important, would the 99% of our members who were NOT at O'Fest rather see a picture of a nice car, or people having a good time, or a list of names and positions that have no relevance to them? It seems to me that the images and stories do more to attract newbies to our games than a list of who won what. However, as always, I DID spend several hours collating and formatting the results of all the O'Fest activities in case we COULD find room for them. I still think that in this world of instantaneous news, when the stats were listed on the website AND embedded in our online issue, the "hard copy" was better served by what we put in that issue than by what we put elsewhere.
That's because, space permitting, you run all letters. At least, that has been a longstanding policy. I, however, have. Many of the folks who are in the 'competitive' events eagerly look forward to seeing their names in print, even if their cars never made the cut for display. I know that my first decade and a half of Oktoberfests would be completely undocumented were it not for the fact that I competed in these events. Hell; most of the time, I wasn't even driving a BMW, but I'd still show up in the results. It may not be much to Mr. AlCan Rally Guy© to look back on his old once-a-year BMW club results, but for some who might have beaten you, I'd bet they enjoy pointing it out to their friends in a big glossy magazine like ROUNDEL. Woody's not necessarily your audience and maybe I'm not either. After all, we've both been in this club a long time and whether anyone sees our names in O'Fest results probably matters about the same to him as it does to me. But I do remember when I went to my first one in 1988, in a Toyota, no less, and still got to see my name as a competitor when I opened the ROUNDEL a few months later. It was great.
Given a choice, I'd rather see a picture of me and my girl friend swimming in the Mediterranean. But I digress. . .C. R. is absolutely correct that there are a couple of hundred rally, autocross, gymkhana, and Concours participants that were looking forward to seeing their names in print, maybe for the first time.
Probably would have required less room than the double cover and repetitive second table-of-contents. I know I'm not qualified to say so, but that looks like it cost two pages right there . . .
I with Woody. Not having that data in the Roundel was a disappointment. I assumed (until now?) that it was just a one-time error.
I hear you, I hear you. . . Chuck sayeth: Yeah, I think that's probably what it's going to turn out to be. . . .
One last thought ... Before going any further ... I like Roundel and look forward to it every month ... in print. Having only been a member of BMW CCA for a very short while, one would think I wouldn't have much experience with Roundel. Think again. eBay. I have the last five years of Roundel. I've read them all, several more than once and yes, I have looked at the statistics of all driving events, in every issue. I know I'm not the main stream but by knowing who was fastest in the past, it was easier for me to anticipate photo ops and the like at my first O'Fest this year. Very helpful. Now, on to the meat ... . . . . First, why can't it do both? . . . . Satch did bring up this one extremely important thought that has seemed to go completely unnoticed ... Hasn't anybody ... anybody ... directly associated with BMW CCA ever at least pondered the idea that this kind of thinking might be contributing to the fact that ... and I quote " ... 99% of our members who were NOT at O'Fest ... " ? Why do so few members go to the annual event? Even more puzzling ... why do so few go to more than one? The club members I have spoken with about it have responded one of two ways. They either knew virtually nothing about O'Fest . or . they said something along the lines of ... Oh, I went ... once. Continuing with this train, hasn't anyone actually considered that the status quo demands that BMW CCA recruit 20,000-30,000 new members every year, just to make up for the people who wander away unserved. And somehow I got the thought that Roundel was for all the membership. Who decides exactly which 1% it no longer represents? ? Anyway, that's my two cents. Being one of the many thousands of 'newbies' you recruited this year, it might not mean much ... ... So be it. It was worth a try.
Internet-data permanency, to me, is almost an oxymoron. It's been that way ever since I first started using pc's 25 years ago; you're working on something and suddenly, something happens (pc crashes, locks up, power outage, glitch, whatever, you-name-it) and whatever it was - *poof*! Gone! (which was always great fun while in the midst of those partially completed college papers). The internet or web has been no different; somebody changes their mind about something, or something else changes or goes haywire, & same thing - *poof*! That happened with the old 'CCA website and forums; the old forums were archived for awhile, then - gone, buh-bye! Today, we can examine manually written or printed texts that, although fragile, may be many centuries old. I don't have much faith that 500 years from now, future BMWCCA members will be checking out what we wrote yesterday and made available through electronic access; it ain't gonna be there. To echo the others, I agree - there are many valid reasons to include the O'Fest results; one member's waste-of-pages may well be another's valued sentiment. dmmai, your thoughts are just as important as anyone else's around here, kudo's for kicking-in. Generally speaking, I think Satch & crew deserve accolades for their monthly efforts; I find little to quibble with in the Roundel, most of the time, and appreciate this club having such a great mag!
It doesn't capture everything, but a LOT of stuff (crap?) gets captured and stored on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://bmwcca.org
The paper copy is also nice to be able to give to your buddies, co-workers, etc to show what you did when you were on vacation. Having the results in the issue lets them see that you actually were there. I guess I'm still a little sensitive to how results are handled since my class (non-BMWs) was completely ignored during the AutoX awards at the 2008 O'fest (my first O'fest) At least the results WERE in Roundel. The only other suggestion I would give would be to have the award winning entries in the photo contest in Roundel. Putting the photos in as well as the names.
We fixed that, didn't we? The photos must be scanned immediately after being judged. There really isn't enough time. Not by me anyway.
Well, I've been there; done that a number of times. Generally, the only award for non-BMW autocross is a simple First Place (I have a couple of 'em) that may even be surreptitiously given to you at some random point during the week. At least, that's how I remember getting one of them.
